Anyone for a 150K USD system ?

Dear Arj,

The Muon from Kef was designed by Mr. Lovegrove also known as "Captain Organic".
Only 100 pairs will be made and i think when Robbie Williams met Lovegrove he did ask for one of the very first pairs.
Lovegrove is considered as God in the design community.

To know how crazy he is, watch this video :

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/27

Regards
SNV

SNV schrieb:

Dear Arj, The Muon from Kef was designed by Mr. Lovegrove also known as "Captain Organic". Only 100 pairs will be made and i think when Robbie Williams met Lovegrove he did ask for one of the very first pairs. Lovegrove is considered as God in the design community. To know how crazy he is, watch this video : http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/27 Regards SNV

Yup he is one of our gods......awesome industrial designer.

Some pictures I had taken in Munich - couple of months back.
Very Very poor sounding speaker;
Strage part is that it got the sound of the show.
Surely something seems to be wrong. !!

Build Quality is A +
Sound Quality is D -

Beauty without brains

Bhagwan,
The reflective surface of teh speaker makes life of teh photographer difficult. One cannot find a frame without the phototgrapher in it

Regards
Anil

Soken like a true photogrpher - I really struggled to click its picture. What a stunning speaker to look at. What horrible sound.
Very well put, beauty without brains !!!

I am really surprised to hear that a speaker designed by Peter Lyngdorf and supported by the most conservative and outstanding piano manufacturer like Steinway can sound horrible.

square_wave schrieb:

I am really surprised to hear that a speaker designed by Peter Lyngdorf and supported by the most conservative and outstanding piano manufacturer like Steinway can sound horrible.

No Sir !! You are getting mixed up. I have not seen or heard the Stienway Speaker.
I was talking about the Kef Speaker here.

Besides, PL is not a designer, he is just a financer, TACT + Dali etc are all just financed by him.
Even in LS [Lyngdorf Stienway] the speaker is made by Stienway. PL just handles the marketing for it.

I sure would like to hear it some day.

I was commenting on the Kef [the pictures are attached].
I cannot begin to explain to you how bad the sound was & the entire front end was reference ML [old].

square_wave schrieb:

speaker designed by Peter Lyngdorf and supported by the most conservative and outstanding piano manufacturer like Steinway can sound horrible.

http://www.stereophile.com/news/052107steinway/

The facts are the other way round.
Steinway made the speaker & PL is to sell it !!





This is the speaker that you are talking about.

I have never heard it. Sure would like to !! Some day !!

Thanks Bhagwan for clearing up the facts.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Some pictures I had taken in Munich - couple of months back. Very Very poor sounding speaker; Strage part is that it got the sound of the show. Surely something seems to be wrong. !! Build Quality is A + Sound Quality is D -

Yes another of our forum members (who went with you - I think) said it sounded like cr@p! He was looking forward to hear the Muon - sadly he was dissapointed.

Hi All,
Truly the damn KEF speaker had no hope.Infact in all fairness, many touted name like Kharma, Burmester, JMLab, Sonus Faber, Avalon Indra sounded like BS in the show. Infact Burge gets better sound in A/V Max shows out of his Maggies than 95% of these big chaps in Munich. Indian audiophiles should feel happy that some extreme talent exists in our country, and that they get to hear some very good sounds even with entry and mid level gear locally.
Regards Deaf.

many touted name like Kharma, Burmester, JMLab, Sonus Faber, Avalon Indra sounded like BS in the show

Hey Bhagwan( 69 )!
What is this madcap saying?

Indian audiophiles should feel happy that some extreme talent exists in our country, and that they get to hear some very good sounds even with entry and mid level gear locally.

Oh!!
Care to put a name to such gear?

Kamal schrieb:

many touted name like Kharma, Burmester, JMLab, Sonus Faber, Avalon Indra sounded like BS in the show Hey Bhagwan( 69 )! What is this madcap saying? Indian audiophiles should feel happy that some extreme talent exists in our country, and that they get to hear some very good sounds even with entry and mid level gear locally. Oh!! Care to put a name to such gear?

Well Kamal there is nothing that Bhagwan can say but the obvious, BS is BS. If during playback, the snare of a Tama drumkit lacks the transient attack as captured by a AT mic or a Sennheiser mic or any other mic that was being used, then the system is lacking, simple.

To answer the second part, it is not just about the gear, but also the people who deal with them that pull the results. You can have the best gear and a clueless trader v/s a talented installer with mid end gear, you take the pick. Some of these talented people are Burge, Boomerang team, Rishi, Jay Nilhani, Prithvi to name a few.

As for being a madcap, since you have asked, Bhagwan please clue the gent as to how correctly he has described me.

Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Hi All, Truly the damn KEF speaker had no hope.Infact in all fairness, many touted name like Kharma, Burmester, JMLab, Sonus Faber, Avalon Indra sounded like BS in the show. Infact Burge gets better sound in A/V Max shows out of his Maggies than 95% of these big chaps in Munich. Indian audiophiles should feel happy that some extreme talent exists in our country, and that they get to hear some very good sounds even with entry and mid level gear locally. Regards Deaf.

I've not been to as many audio shows as Deaf & Bhagwan69 but over the years I've interacted w/ many people on the audio forum they have gained my confidence over this time. Plus, I've (fortunately) come to know some audio manufacturers who make mid to mid-hi priced gear. This gear is well-implemented but lacks the "wow" looks of, say, a Kharma or a KEF Muon, etc. However, sound-wise, there is very, very little missing from this well-implemented, mid to mid-hi priced gear.
Using these 2 experiences, I seem to be coming to the conclusion, time & time again, that there is very little extremely hi-priced audio gear that is worth the sound at its price! More time has been spent by the manuf in making the audio gear look good from the outside & much less time has been spent in making it sound worthy of its sticker price. Almost all of that ultra hi-priced gear is just "Viagra effect" for people who have surplus cash to burn/throw!
So, I'm coming to the same conclusion (independently) as what Deaf wrote!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Some pictures I had taken in Munich - couple of months back. Very Very poor sounding speaker; Strage part is that it got the sound of the show. Surely something seems to be wrong. !! Build Quality is A + Sound Quality is D -

Hi Bhagwan,
when I was in Munich in May I didn't go to the KEF room and some rooms too, such as B&W, Linn, Burmester, MBL and a few others because I am basically not interested in their products (what terrible prejudices I have ). So I can't say anything about the performance of this KEF-speaker under show conditions. But the sound of the show for me was the Brinkmann/Lithophon setup. Did you go there? What do you think about this combo? Another quite impressive performance was that in the RAVEN/KRON/CESSARO-Room. Please let us know which room you liked. I would like to get an impression of your preferences.

Regards,
Jochen

goolimangala schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: Some pictures I had taken in Munich - couple of months back. Very Very poor sounding speaker; Strage part is that it got the sound of the show. Surely something seems to be wrong. !! Build Quality is A + Sound Quality is D - Hi Bhagwan, when I was in Munich in May I didn't go to the KEF room and some rooms too, such as B&W, Linn, Burmester, MBL and a few others because I am basically not interested in their products (what terrible prejudices I have ). So I can't say anything about the performance of this KEF-speaker under show conditions. But the sound of the show for me was the Brinkmann/Lithophon setup. Did you go there? What do you think about this combo? Another quite impressive performance was that in the RAVEN/KRON/CESSARO-Room. Please let us know which room you liked. I would like to get an impression of your preferences. Regards, Jochen

Sir,

I need to meet you !!!
How do we do this ? Please, I am serious;


I will ask A.S. & M.D. from Cadence to introduce us.
You sure are a 'clued in fellow' !! I must say.

That particular set up was very average at best on the first 2 days, however, on the 3rd day boy what a change !!!
Un-real. Metronome CD PLayer + Brinkmann/Lithophon came into their own light.
Yes, I would put the sound as the top 3 at the show.

Will write more in a while.

Brinkmann/Lithophon
I have the pictures on my office computer, I will put them up today. But the sound was great, set up was lovely, very very intellegent [placement of the speakers] !!!

For me the 'best sound' @ Munich High End was from China !!! Yes sir, do not throw stones at me, I am sticking my neck out here, pardon. I will post pictures later today of the ugliest speaker ever made. Poor Room. Below par electronics etc. But what a lovely sound, I really liked it. This was on the ground floor.
Details to follow.

Isophone + Octave

This was another room, I really liked a lot. This actually was the best sound for me, the chinese speaker came frighteniengly close. This picture too I shall post today !!

The Raven TT is great ! Eunice [Kron] is a good friend; The Cessaro used gread drivers [TAD].
It was a nice set up, great scale, but image was not up to my taste. I did not want to find too many faults, but I did not love this set up. Top 10 - yes. Not higher. Stitch It On loved it [care to comment] !!!

This played the symphonic pieces very very well, but the small quartets it could not get the size correct, female vocal too was a 'bit wired' !!

Pictures will post later - sorry !!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

For me the 'best sound' @ Munich High End was from China !!! Yes sir, do not throw stones at me, I am sticking my neck out here, pardon. I will post pictures later today of the ugliest speaker ever made. Poor Room. Below par electronics etc. But what a lovely sound, I really liked it. This was on the ground floor. Details to follow.

very very interesting. Was it Aurum Cantus ? or Jungson ?

i might suspect it is that Jungson speaker which looks like a Plumber gone crazy

[quote="goolimangala"]
when I was in Munich in May I didn't go to the KEF room and some rooms too, such as B&W, Linn, Burmester, MBL and a few others
I would like to get an impression of your preferences.

Jochen[/quote]

Dear Jochen,

Sir,

MBL was the most impressive looking set up @ Munich High End - 2007. However, it was competing with Kef Muon for the 10 worst sounds of the show for shure !! So sad.
The other Kef room was OK. They were playing with Chord & were right next to ASR - Audiodata & Fischer & Fischer.

The Burmester room was very crowded as usual, sound was not bad, but not the kind that would make me stand up and put my money down for it !!!

B & W as usual were average at best, I wanted to hear their new speaker - Signature Diamond - but it was only on display. They were playing a 5.1 801D set up. Nothing to write home about.

Linn was a mixed bag. Very difficult to call, have heard it sound nice and poor. So I will excuse comments.

Arj schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: . Jungson ? i might suspect it is that Jungson speaker which looks like a Plumber gone crazy :D

Hi Arj !

Spot on.

What a 'ugly' looking thing.
Lovely sound. At least, I liked it. Liked it a lot !!! Had a great sense of pace, tone was nice, igame size was accurate, etc. etc. The room was a particle board partition, very very poor. Any installers nightmare, but I liked the sound. It did something for me.

I know what you are talking of. the most haunting setuo I have heard is an Avant Garde Duo driven by some SET tube (Chinese) and a Turntable. playing a chinese song. this iwas in the 2003 Sing Hifi Show.
I dont know how to describe it nor remember the parameters other than th efeect it had on me.

I know these speakers are not really well liked here in this forum, but it did do it for me. something the Wilson Alexandria driven by a complete Godmund setup failed to do.

I must add that i did listen to Sivas setup last week..and it is a pretty remarkable system/setup..not something you would expect from a a setup having a self designed Source, preamp, amp and speakers !!!

Sir,

I need to meet you !!!
How do we do this ? Please, I am serious;


I will ask A.S. & M.D. from Cadence to introduce us.
You sure are a 'clued in fellow' !! I must say.

That particular set up was very average at best on the first 2 days, however, on the 3rd day boy what a change !!!
Un-real. Metronome CD PLayer + Brinkmann/Lithophon came into their own light.
Yes, I would put the sound as the top 3 at the show.

Will write more in a while.[/quote]

Bhagwan,

You're always most welcome to visit me in Bgl. Unfortunately I almost never come to Mumbai. Tell me one thing: what was wrong with this setup on the other two days?

Jochen

He was not able to get the speakers positioned correctly.
As time went by, he changed the position. Finally when I listened to it on Sunday [last day of the show] it had 'snapped' into focus. Sounded very well balanced.
The room across - Ayon - Lumenwhite - I had such high hopes, but it just was not able to pull itself up.

You see sir, it is all about set up.

We will meet in Mumbai - Next Month for sure. I am sure you will come for the new Cadence Showroom's opening. So we will meet and chat !!! I really look forward to that.

However, if I come to Bangalore, I will surely call on you.

What else did you like @ H.E. 2007 ? Your inputs too would be appreciated.

Arj schrieb:

I know these speakers are not really well liked here in this forum, but it did do it for me. something the Wilson Alexandria driven by a complete Godmund setup failed to do. !!

I too do not like the AG's. However, the problem is that they are very very difficult to set up & get them to sound 'right'
I have heard them several times & on all occasions it has failed to 'move' me.
All said, there are few persons - who I respect in the international audio fraternity & they seem to swear by it.

I guess, I just need to be in the right place at the right time when that AG actually does decide to play well.


p.s. I had that chance to listen to the Alexendria + Goldmund & Goldmund [Speaker] + Goldmund [Reference Electronics] & I walked out of the room in pure disgust.
This was in Taipei - 2005.

The best sound for me on the whole trip was in Copenhagen, it trampled everything that I heard in the show into the dirt, no contest.
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

The best sound for me on the whole trip was in Copenhagen, it trampled everything that I heard in the show into the dirt, no contest. Regards Deaf.

Do elaborate sir!

Shahrukh schrieb:

deaf schrieb: The best sound for me on the whole trip was in Copenhagen, it trampled everything that I heard in the show into the dirt, no contest. Regards Deaf. Do elaborate sir!

Actually make that into every audio system I have heard in my life.
Regards Deaf.

let me guess again...the Jamo R909 ? OR the Gamut L3 ?

Arj schrieb:

let me guess again...the Jamo R909 ? OR the Gamut L3 ?

No sir it wasn't.
Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Kamal schrieb: many touted name like Kharma, Burmester, JMLab, Sonus Faber, Avalon Indra sounded like BS in the show Hey Bhagwan( 69 )! What is this madcap saying? Indian audiophiles should feel happy that some extreme talent exists in our country, and that they get to hear some very good sounds even with entry and mid level gear locally. Oh!! Care to put a name to such gear? Well Kamal there is nothing that Bhagwan can say but the obvious, BS is BS. If during playback, the snare of a Tama drumkit lacks the transient attack as captured by a AT mic or a Sennheiser mic or any other mic that was being used, then the system is lacking, simple. To answer the second part, it is not just about the gear, but also the people who deal with them that pull the results. You can have the best gear and a clueless trader v/s a talented installer with mid end gear, you take the pick. Some of these talented people are Burge, Boomerang team, Rishi, Jay Nilhani, Prithvi to name a few. As for being a madcap, since you have asked, Bhagwan please clue the gent as to how correctly he has described me. Regards Deaf.

Nice to have you back!!

C'mon Deaf,stop being a tease!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

He was not able to get the speakers positioned correctly. As time went by, he changed the position. Finally when I listened to it on Sunday [last day of the show] it had 'snapped' into focus. Sounded very well balanced. The room across - Ayon - Lumenwhite - I had such high hopes, but it just was not able to pull itself up. You see sir, it is all about set up. We will meet in Mumbai - Next Month for sure. I am sure you will come for the new Cadence Showroom's opening. So we will meet and chat !!! I really look forward to that. However, if I come to Bangalore, I will surely call on you. What else did you like @ H.E. 2007 ? Your inputs too would be appreciated.

I also had high expectations on the Ayon-room after I auditioned the LumenWhite Diamond Light last year with Einstein electronics. What a great speaker that is! But the Ayon setup sounded too pleasant and soothing for me. Also bass was muddled. After I managed to get to the correct listening place I too found soundstage quite poor.

Regarding my preferences I can't say much other than the two rooms mentioned. After I found the Brinkmann/Lithophon room I spent more than three hours there till closure of the show. I'm sure these guys would have let me listen longer also but had to catch my flight back home

Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to listen to an Avalon speaker. Whenever I came to that room nothing was going on there but I didn't want to waste my time waiting. I was on the show only for one day. So an Avalon is still on my wishlist of speakers to listen to. Biggest disappoint for me was the room where Kharma was exhibited. I was wondering what all this hype about this speaker was good for.

Dear Joachen,

The Indra was average at best.
I am a strong believer that the person that was in the Hovland + Avalon room is a father of all installers. I have hear him set up in the past & his abilities are amongst the best that I have encountered. This time around too he only had set up the speakers, but the sound was no way close to good. The speaker may need to be be worked on !

Did you get a chance to listen to the Sonics ? Nice Speaker. I liked it !!!

Well with regards to the Kharma, there is a pair of the same speaker in Bangalore, I am sure you are aware of that. You could drop by for a listen, Prithvi / Siva can arrange that for you. They have sold it & installed it there.

The TT in that Kharma room was good. Cobra Continuim. The sound was disjointed. Bass was loading & was playing catch up but was just not in a position to keep up. Expensive gear, no good sound.

Kamal schrieb:

C'mon Deaf,stop being a tease!

He is not teasing you. It is not a production speaker.
So what can he say ?
Besides, none of us were there, so no one to corraborate it in any case. But is must have been nice !!

Arj schrieb:

let me guess again...the Jamo R909 ? OR the Gamut L3 ?

Such simple things will not shake the likes of 'deaf' !!
That is for mortals like u & me !!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Arj schrieb: let me guess again...the Jamo R909 ? OR the Gamut L3 ? Such simple things will not shake the likes of 'deaf' !! That is for mortals like u & me !! :cut

Sir, thou flatterest me
I am a bit more of a mortal than thou in this area(No Kidding or Sarcasm intended here !)

Bhagwan is correct in saying that it is not a production piece, hence mouth shut. It was a spectacular experience, I was truly shaken . To hear a Steinway Grand, 9' across, and 4' deep cemented in space infront of you, with the entire decay trail intact and no hi-fi BS, ensured that I sat there listening for 4 1/2 hours at realistic levels (read loud) with no fatigue whatsoever. Finally I had to leave with my host(read dragged out),for dinner as it was 11.00 pm in the night and we would have ended up getting no food.
Plan to go back in the end of August or Sept beginning, any member wanna join?
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Bhagwan is correct in saying that it is not a production piece, hence mouth shut. It was a spectacular experience, I was truly shaken . To hear a Steinway Grand, 9' across, and 4' deep cemented in space infront of you, with the entire decay trail intact and no hi-fi BS, ensured that I sat there listening for 4 1/2 hours at realistic levels (read loud) with no fatigue whatsoever. Finally I had to leave with my host(read dragged out),for dinner as it was 11.00 pm in the night and we would have ended up getting no food. Plan to go back in the end of August or Sept beginning, any member wanna join? Regards Deaf.

Where to deaf?

Regards
SNV

Maharaj SNV the destination is Copenhagen.
Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Bhagwan is correct in saying that it is not a production piece, hence mouth shut. It was a spectacular experience, I was truly shaken . To hear a Steinway Grand, 9' across, and 4' deep cemented in space infront of you, with the entire decay trail intact and no hi-fi BS, ensured that I sat there listening for 4 1/2 hours at realistic levels (read loud) with no fatigue whatsoever. Finally I had to leave with my host(read dragged out),for dinner as it was 11.00 pm in the night and we would have ended up getting no food. Plan to go back in the end of August or Sept beginning, any member wanna join? Regards Deaf.

Wow ! That is what you call real hi-fidelity…………You are real lucky to have heard something like that.

Good to have you back too…….

Thanks Square wave.
Deaf

ParamMaharaj Deaf,

Mujhe shamaa karna, mein aap ke saat nahi aa sakta.

Bahut bahut danyavad phirbhi.

SNV

SNV schrieb:

ParamMaharaj Deaf, Mujhe shamaa karna, mein aap ke saat nahi aa sakta. Bahut bahut danyavad phirbhi. SNV

Gurudev SNV, aap ne poocha, meine batayaa. Koi baat nahin.
Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

SNV schrieb: ParamMaharaj Deaf, Mujhe shamaa karna, mein aap ke saat nahi aa sakta. Bahut bahut danyavad phirbhi. SNV Gurudev SNV, aap ne poocha, meine batayaa. Koi baat nahin. Deaf.

Next year Munich zaroor aapke saat chalne ki ishaa hain sir.

Regards
SNV

Full waste of time.
Do not waste your time and money.
Go to Rocky Mountain Fest instead.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Full waste of time. Do not waste your time and money. Go to Rocky Mountain Fest instead.

Dear Baghwan,

The RMAF is better in what terms. Are you going?

Regards
SNV