NO MORE DEMOS OF PLINIUS SA-102

Damn ! I wanted to spend another relaxed hearing of the SA-102. That sound is so intoxicating......
Will be listening to the acoustic portraits at siva's place soon. Hopefully he will have the SA-102 connected..:))

hi Squarewave,
Let us know about your opinions on Acoustics portrait speakers. I have been waiting for long to hear about them from someone in the forum.

Abhi,

Why don't you ask prithvi abt Acoustic portrait........he knows shiv very very well and he can give you a candid opinion....or why don't u visit Shiv as he has Plinius and you xcan arrive at a better decision

abhi,
i told u when u called me.
Prithvi had the acoustic portrait top end model when i had been there.
he may still have it.
go check it out there. he also has a cambridge audio amp so since u are considerring Cam audio u can ask him to set it up for u to listen.
the speakers are very well made.
excellent finish. no dearth of bass and highs but i found the mids to be missing. the bass compared to the Proac 125 was muddeled not not as tight regardless of the fact that the Proac had only one 6.5 inch driver.
it was simply awesome.
i myself would like to hear the acoustic portrait with an economy amp(heard it with the conrad johnson amp, should try it with a nad or cambridge)) and CDp.
Ben
p.s: they are very good except for the mids

benkenobi schrieb:

abhi, P.s: they are very good except for the mids

That statement holds true for almost every budget speaker..what is important is what is it about the mids that is cannot reproduce or not do very well

Arj schrieb:

what is important is what is it about the mids that is cannot reproduce or not do very well ;)

well, in my view there was no soul in the mids. besides the time spent was very limited to make a proper judgement.
but my immediate feeling was the vocals did not appeal to me.
but that's me. i will try to see if i can spend some more time with it to give a proper view.
u also have to consider the fact that thay were paird with a Linn source and a high end conrad johnson amp. so i would like to hear it with components it would ideally be used with.
ben

benks,
One way of looking at it is :
when high end components cannot bring out the mids you want, what hope do you have with mid fi or low fi components ?

The other way to look at it is that the source/amp/cables were not a good match with the speakers. One must try another set of amp/source/cables to see if the mids measure up to your expectations.

Manek.

Last time I was there I asked prithvi about the acc portraits. He has a good opinion. He himself suggested that I listen to it in a properly setup place. So I am going for a second listen.It might not be as impressive as the proacs but then the price difference is huge. Some seasoned audiophiles including the Prithvi said that they are very good value for money.For an equivalant product you might have to pay at least 45 percent more.
I shall listen and post my views.Damn ! I have been spoilt rotten by the proac studio 125...:))

Manek schrieb:

benks, One way of looking at it is : when high end components cannot bring out the mids you want, what hope do you have with mid fi or low fi components ? The other way to look at it is that the source/amp/cables were not a good match with the speakers. One must try another set of amp/source/cables to see if the mids measure up to your expectations. Manek.

very true.

Hey sqwave,
wait till u hear the D15s !!!!!!!!!
Rgds
PRithvi

square_wave schrieb:

Damn ! I have been spoilt rotten by the proac studio 125...:))

u are not the only one. i am even now tempted to sell all my audio equipment and my tv(even that may not be enough) and go buy one of those beauties.
the sound emanating from them was so intoxicating that i can hardly belive that Prithvi let a cutomer take them away from him .
Ben

yeah...square wave, I know what you mean. When one finds a speaker that your ears and heart just love, other speakers just dont seem to match up.

But then again do keep looking,....you never know, you may find a speaker that sounds the same or better to you in a given situation and could be cheaper. trick is to keep lookin......

Give you an example, I always had a bad expereince with KEF speakers and the uni-Q series especially. heard them in the showroom, av shows, homes etc and was wondering what the fuss was all about.
Last week-end I head them again but in a different room and I was quite surprised by the vocals and its rendering of wind instruments. Brightness was controlled as well. Definately far better than what I had heard before and they sounded like a completely different speaker.

....some food for thought.

benks feels the mids were missing in the AP speakers he heard but to someone else, the mids could be spot on.

Manek.

Manek schrieb:

I always had a bad expereince with KEF speakers and the uni-Q series especially. heard them in the showroom, av shows, homes etc and was wondering what the fuss was all about.

i had the same experience too. the highs and mids were merged because of that driver array tweeter. next i listened to the reference series and was completely blown away by those highs. absoluteley amazing those hypertweeters are.
Benks

Prithvi,
Do let me know when they break in...:))

Hi! Ben!,
Here's another piece of advice to you! Never pass a judgement of loudspeakers if you have listened to them for less than a good four to five hours.

Even after >15 years of experience I still take my own sweet time in commenting my personal judgement on a loudspeaker. It can be a cheap Rs 1000 spk or even a Rs 10 lac spk.

I really fail to understand your comments on the Acoustic Portraits as you listened to them for not even 5 mins.

Learn buddy, learn! just keep learning one step at a time.

As Manek mentioned : the permutations and combos are so huge with spks just by changing cables, amps, cdps, placement and most of all the room (most important.)

Hows ur 320bee now. Still frying possible.!
Rgds

Prithvi

no frying's not possible but hot enough to take 'her' to bed with me and keep me happy .

I really fail to understand your comments on the Acoustic Portraits as you listened to them for not even 5 mins. Learn buddy, learn! just keep learning one step at a time.

yeah, iknow.
that's what i have said in my post, that i listened to them briefly.
BTW do u still have them. i'd like to give them a listen once more, this time a good one.(before buying the wharfies i actually wanted to build a DIY speaker by getting those very same drivers and tweeter and in the same config too, but my dad was not so enthusiastic abt ME building the speakers and hence the desicion to buy the commercial models. hope to get into serious DIY mode once i pass out).
if u know what u are doing and acn have the drivers imported from the US u acn actually build them urselef for around 20-22k. there are quite a few DIY projects using those very same vifa P17j something drivers in the same config and driver mounting on the baffle.also many bookshelfs using the vifa driver.
My wharfies are good but the bass is still a bit muddled and at times boomy(u know, like when that bass guitar or that big guitar kind of thing u play while holding it to the floor, sorry i don't know the name of the instrument.) i want to hear those same songs on the Proac and the AP to make a direct campro with my own.
BTW, i'm sure if u see my room u'll laugh at it. i mean it is really baaad. too much of stuff. in fact my dad is pestering me to put the wharfies back in the corner. only bareley have i been able to convince him and they are still in their new positions. however, i would have liked to give them more space and plant them a good 70-80 cm away from the walls, atleast instead of the measly 20-25 cm that they have now.
just hope he will heed my words while building the second floor audio room.

Ben

p.s:if u don't mind me asking, how much do the Proacs cost?

u could say my reaction to the AP was like any person who auditions the bose acoustic mass series for the first 10 minutes. they are more taken by the big sound the small speakers produce than the quality of the sound, or rather lack of it.
the second time i heard the bose for a good 45 minutes my ears were irritated 15-20 minutes into the session( and he was calling them the best high end audio u can get in India).
but, u know when u first listen to any new speaker, there is an instant reaction in u(in me atleast), a feeling of how good the speakers are and how it performs cause u instanly compare it with the best possible equipment or mostly likely the equipment u own. and since u are tuned to ur equipment it is neigh impossible to rely on that instant feeling. i really do need to spend more time with the AP. the fact that the bass and highs were better than my wharfies was apparent to me the instant i heard roger waters song( i don't remember the name of the song). but the difference between tthe bass quality of the AP and Proac was very clear to me( i am a bass freak when i am in my car)
i don't want to shoot off my mouth here, but i felt ur demo room is a bit small. have u considered putting all those gorgeous equip in a much larger room? what are the dimensions of ur demo room. to my tastes, i felt that i was rather close to the speakers(its the same case in almost any showroom, don't take this comment the wrong way). i personally like to sit at least 9-10 feet away from the speakers.
ben

benkenobi schrieb:

u could say my reaction to the AP was like any person who auditions the bose acoustic mass series for the first 10 minutes. they are more taken by the big sound the small speakers produce than the quality of the sound, or rather lack of it. the second time i heard the bose for a good 45 minutes my ears were irritated 15-20 minutes into the session( and he was calling them the best high end audio u can get in India).

Again, as mentione by Prithvi sound depends on the setup. Bose can sound pretty good and with a very good soundstage too. just depends on the accompaneing electronics. one needs to remember is that you are not just listening to the speaker but to a System. Bose does have its strengths..unfortunately for the consumer (And very well done by them) they lie more in the marketing front. their products might be overhyped but do remember they are the ones who
* introduced Sub Sats in a big way
* Evangelised direct Vs Reflected sound
* Made leaps in DSP in audio
* Realised and perfectly executed the principles of Brand management and their consumer perception..
As long as a speaker is resolving enough you can always get accompanying electronics to "correct" it. what the speaker should be able to comvey is the soul of the music and that should appeal to you

benkenobi schrieb:

i don't want to shoot off my mouth here, but i felt ur demo room is a bit small. have u considered putting all those gorgeous equip in a much larger room? what are the dimensions of ur demo room. to my tastes, i felt that i was rather close to the speakers(its the same case in almost any showroom, don't take this comment the wrong way). i personally like to sit at least 9-10 feet away from the speakers. ben

well in order to listen to less of reflected sound and more of direct sound, you need to sit closer (5-7 feet)and this may be a better idea with your wharfedales.A small rom is perfectly OK if it is sufficiently damped ! youd be very surprised at the perfect sound from floorstanders possible in even a 10X8 room !

Bose can sound pretty good and with a very good soundstage too. just depends on the accompaneing electronics. one needs to remember is that you are not just listening to the speaker but to a System. but do remember they are the ones who * introduced Sub Sats in a big way * Evangelised direct Vs Reflected sound * Made leaps in DSP in audio * Realised and perfectly executed the principles of Brand management and their consumer perception.. As long as a speaker is resolving enough you can always get accompanying electronics to "correct" it. what the speaker should be able to comvey is the soul of the music and that should appeal to you

well, i know what bose has given to the industry(the guy just would'nt shut up about the achhievements bose has made when all i asked him was how come they are able to produce such big sound for a small speaker.
but isn't the concept of reflection of sound being now debated. BTW by proper room acoustics we usually mean damping and try to minimize reflections while Bose professes the opposite.
can u plese explain this to me. i don't have enough experience to make a judgement on such a thing.

well in order to listen to less of reflected sound and more of direct sound, you need to sit closer (5-7 feet)and this may be a better idea with your wharfedales.A small rom is perfectly OK if it is sufficiently damped ! youd be very surprised at the perfect sound from floorstanders possible in even a 10X8 room !

wow. i certainly did'nt know that. i 'll definiteley give it a try today.
but, having read ur piece, it makes me wonder why all the hoopla of power in the hundreds of watts. its like u'll be siiting just two meters away and even 90db levels over a couple of hours may leave u hearing impaired. so whay do u need so many watts?
Cheers,
Benks