Just in at Absolute Phase: PRIMARE A32 PWR AMP + DYNAUDIO FOCUS 140 BKSHELF SPKS

Autor

Beitrag

Prithvi
Stammgast

#1 erstellt: 03. Jun 2006, 06:57

Hi! Guys,

Just got the amazing Primare A32 Power amp ( 250 x 2 @ 8 ohms, 400 x 2 @ 4 Ohms, 40 Kgs monster) & the new Dynaudio Focus 140 bookshelf spks that has been winning awards in Japan.

Check out

www.primare.net &

www.dynaudio.com for more details.

All demos by appointment only: Pls call from Tuesday on wards on 9844094669.

Rgds

Prithvi

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#2 erstellt: 03. Jun 2006, 08:05

WOW !

How does it compare to the DK Designs ?

Cheers

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#3 erstellt: 03. Jun 2006, 21:01

Amp_Nut schrieb:

WOW !

How does it compare to the DK Designs ?

Cheers

The latest iteration of the DK Designs is reviewed in the June 2006 Stereophile issue. From the review, it looks like the DK Designs amp is a POS! In the review it was compared to a $1500 Creek integrated amp, which is a very venerable piece & been around in 1 iteration or the other for some time now + it was also compared to a combination of Audio Eclipse pre & Audio Research VT100 Mk2 power amp. The combination was $8600. The DK Designs is $4000 & seems to fall in between price-wise.
From the review, the $1500 Creek integrated kicked the DK Designs' butt - it was superior in virtually every way. The DK Designs had a more liquid midrange owing to the 6922 tubes but no other compliment was paid to it.
The Audio Eclipse + VT100 Mk2 (not even the latest iteration of the power amp) also kicked the DK Designs butt pretty solidly.
If this review is on-line, please read it for yourself.
So, comparing the Primare to the DK Designs might not be such a good idea afterall - the DK Designs doesn't seem to have many/any sonic virtues.

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#4 erstellt: 04. Jun 2006, 04:20

Yes, I subscribe to Stereophile, and have read the June issue.

Yes, the Creek Intergrated whips the DK designs in most areas, thought not in imaging & rich textural presentation.

Also, in all fairness, the Creek 5350 is a GIANT KILLER, and is probably the Only similarly priced integrated in the Stereophile Class A component list.

On the other hand, the DK amp did compare reasonably well ( but was beaten by ) the more expensive AVK + AR combo..

Without having had the pleasure to hear the dK design amp, myu conclusion is that its a reasonably good alround performer, providing Very Good Value for money. Its undoing its its Over-the-top marketing, positioning it asa "perfect" amp, that can beat anything atany price....

My query was to compare the DK with the Primare. I do know of persons who have heard and not liked AT ALL, the primare intergrated, so I was wondering how its biger brother compared, with the DK Designs.

Cheers

Prithvi
Stammgast

#5 erstellt: 04. Jun 2006, 14:42

The A32 is in a different league! Its got the slam factor that the DK does no have. The DK on the other hand is more tubey thanks to its Class A tube pre-amp. The DK is a very clean sounding amp IMHO & true VFM.

However the A32 has the finesse and bass that grips your balls by a iron fist. But seems a bit cold to my liking.

Anyhow just an initial hearing on the A32, needs more listening to do justice to the product. Build quality is out of the world. Damn thing is 40 kgs in wt. Personally dont like the black colour. Prefer the silver colour. Look wise just like a big black box.

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 04. Jun 2006, 15:25

Hi Prithvi,

THANKS for your feedback.

Cheers !

ani
Stammgast

#7 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 04:46

Hi Prithvi,

Can you give us your view on this amp compared to their integrated amp I31. I am asking you this to get a fair idea of what it is because I31 is known to me. Is this power amp a more powerful version of the intergrated having similar sonic traits?
Which pre amp was you using along with A32?

Thanking you

Anil

Prithvi
Stammgast

#8 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 06:49

Hi! Anil,

The A32 has more details than the I31. Its power is also much more. Best is to go with the Primare pre as a whole package.
Rgds

Prithvi

Manek
Inventar

#9 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 09:59

Its funny the term "cold" should mentioned about the Primare, but that is exactly what I felt when I heard the integrated with the dyn focus floorstanders, dyn audience 52 and Dali. Heard it about 3 times over. Each time after a few minutes the sound was just background music for me. Cold and not involving at all.
Complete lack of emotion in the music.
The amp sure could emit sounds but just could not make music. Know of three more people who felt the same way and we all share different interests/tastes in music and audio systems. The integrated seems to be a love-it or hate-it amp. It looks good though. Someone else on the forum had categorised this brand Primare as a lifestyle product and I think that seems to be true in my case with the integrated.

Would the power amp be a different animal given that Primare would need to have a similar sonic signature across its prducts in the same line ? I wonder

Manek.

Krish
Stammgast

#10 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 10:36

Manek schrieb:

Manek.

Aye, that's true.In fact Manek and I toodled off to The Ritz one afternoon, a couple of months back to audition the Dali Ikon 6, another 'highly rated' HiFi product.

Powering the Dali was a Primare Integrated (the 100W PC version) with a Primaluna, then a Primare CDP used as source.

We used a variety of music ranging from Micheal Hedges,Nitin Sawhney, Louis Amstrong to Robbie Robertson for the audition.

The system played back music with lots of detail. Unfortunately what it lacked was soul.You could hear the music, but not feel it.Intially I kept wondering whether it was just me, but Manek confirmed that he too felt just the same.

To begin with Veeru thought that the problem was the CDP- The Prima Luna, and changed over to the Primare.Unfortunately the sound become even more 'cold'.

Anyway it left both of us wondering what the fuss was all about, esp given that Primare is not exactly cheap.

Arj
Inventar

#11 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 11:32

Audio sure is a funny hobby

There is this person I used to be in touch with in Australia (I think) who owns a primare with Diapson speakers and he loves them as his primary system. his 2nd love is a pair of Castles.

his system is below..

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/CJRHifi/

I think its focus is detail/accuracy hence if you are the sort who likes Tubes and a warmish sound (Euphonic ? ), you will not like it. but if you like detailed and accurate sound, this might be a good match in your setup.

Am sure it will sound great with speakers like Proac, Sonus faber, and most italian/french speakers

Manek
Inventar

#12 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 11:32

Krish...

The cdp was the Opera and not the primaluna.

Manek.

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#13 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 12:49

Arj schrieb:

Audio sure is a funny hobby

........
........

I think its focus is detail/accuracy hence if you are the sort who likes Tubes and a warmish sound (Euphonic ? ), you will not like it. but if you like detailed and accurate sound, this might be a good match in your setup.

Am sure it will sound great with speakers like Proac, Sonus faber, and most italian/french speakers :)

I have not heard the DK Designs nor the Primare A3. However, following the discussion here esp. the posts from Prithvi, Manek & Krish, it seems that if one uses the A32 w/ "ProAc, Sonus Faber & most italian/french speakers" it implies doing tone control in one's system to compensate for the A32's "cold" sound. Personally, I have a problem w/ 2-ch systems built this way!

but that's me!

SOmewhere along the line, more often than not, the listener is going to get overall compromised re-produced sound, which ain't a good thing ever. It seems to me that, for the money spent, there are other amps in the same price bracket that will perform better. IMHO.

Arj
Inventar

#14 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 14:12

Well if that is tone control everyone does it

isnt that what system matching/ System Synergy is all about .. especially with regard to Warm/neutral and bright cables ?

Anyway I do not remember having Primare hence no comments on its temperature.. just that the sound of one component can definitely not be arrived at from listening to a system once. you either put it in a setup you are familiar with (Like ones own) OR you do an A:B with another component you are familiar with !.

else it is the System in a room you hear and not the component

Prithvi
Stammgast

#15 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 14:15

I believe that if you want soul, nothing to beat a nice tube amp. Period. Listening to Jazz on a lovely unison research (one of my favs) especially with ProAcs are something which i love.

A small question for you guys, as you age dont you prefer a more mellow sound rather than a more analytical sound??????? I even have started listening to music on a softer level, I guess I am becoming old

Well thats life.

Cant bear to go to a disco now days and get my ears blasted.

A nice tube amp, nice spks & a nice single malt with some lovely jazz, AaHHHH heaven

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#16 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 15:37

Arj schrieb:

Well if that is tone control everyone does it

isnt that what system matching/ System Synergy is all about .. especially with regard to Warm/neutral and bright cables ?

i'm afraid that you might be correct on this one!

IMHO, it's the wrong thing to do - use one component to compensate for another's short-coming(s). One ends up w/ a system so flawed that it rarely sounds good OR sounds good only on certain/one genre of music.
IMHO, each component should hold its own so that the total sum is greater than (or worst-case equal to) its parts.

Arj
Inventar

#17 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 16:47

i can understand where you are coming from on that B'Walla

so technically we have a perfect source into a straight wire with gain till those perfect transducers and its what a Hifi is supposed to do

unfortunately for me , 50 % of my cds are so badly recorded that ill have to give up music on a system like that... those RPG recordings of Asha/kishore are not really what HI fi is about.. but they form a part of the music I like

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#18 erstellt: 05. Jun 2006, 17:40

Arj schrieb:

i can understand where you are coming from on that B'Walla

so technically we have a perfect source into a straight wire with gain till those perfect transducers and its what a Hifi is supposed to do

I'm afraid that it's *NOT* about a "perfect source"!

Such a thing doesn't exist given that one has to use real-world parts. Everything has a colouration. However, it's about a source (& correspondingly all electronics down-chain + the transducers) having the least colouration & as far as possible signal independent phase distortion. It is only then that your 2-ch will distort the distortion the least & when you will enjoy your music the most.

Arj schrieb:

To me the issue seems to be that you are equating a low colouration 2-ch setup to something that is fatiguing &/or non-musical.
I think that you are wrong here!

I don't know how extensive you experience is w/ various 2-ch setups i.e. how many you have heard other than your own?
It appears that you might not have a heard system(s) that are both accurate and musical?! Such systems do exist & your Asha/Kishore Kumar music would sound far better than you can expect on these systems (than any other)!

Krish
Stammgast

#19 erstellt: 06. Jun 2006, 03:54

Manek schrieb:

Krish...

The cdp was the Opera and not the primaluna.

Manek.

Right you are.I knew I was making a mistake.

Krish
Stammgast

#20 erstellt: 06. Jun 2006, 04:07

[quote="bombaywalla
It appears that you might not have a heard system(s) that are both accurate and musical?! Such systems do exist & your Asha/Kishore Kumar music would sound far better than you can expect on these systems (than any other)!

[/quote]

Bingo !! I often wonder why detail/accuracy and musicality ( if that would be the appropriate term ) need to be seen as attributes on the opposite ends of a spectrum ?

Cheers
K

abhi.pani
Inventar

#21 erstellt: 06. Jun 2006, 04:28

Hi Prithvi,
How does Primare compare to Plinius 9100/9200 integrated amps ? I think a Plinius 9100 should cost about the same as the Primare A32..

Manek
Inventar

#22 erstellt: 06. Jun 2006, 04:50

Krish,
Actually, if the system is detailed then there should be a musical aspect to it. Good amps give you the detail and yet are musical.
I think in systems that are labeled detailed but dont sound musical, I dont think we are hearing the right balance of detail across the spectrum.

Why is it then that live unamplified music detailed and yet is musical ? Anyone been to the tata theatre for concerts or concerts abroad in concert halls would have experienced it.

Manek.

Arj
Inventar

#23 erstellt: 06. Jun 2006, 07:23

[/quote]

To be honest I am not sure If I have heard one.

To me each system sounds so different that it is difficult to say which is the (More ? )accurate one. but musical they all are.. I mean they do all produce music although what it means to each person is so different based on what his expectation from it are

.. yes have been able to hear a couple of really engaging systems around whose sound I had been able to model my own system albeit at a lower price point with acceptable trade offs

But Accuracy to source is not something which I have on my personal list of favourites.. As long as the presentation is good and most instruments are identifiable tonally (individually and as a whole!) as to what they are, I am quite happy with it .

with a higher price I just expect higher resolution/detail but prefer the same presentation.

Krish
Stammgast

#24 erstellt: 06. Jun 2006, 08:11

Manek schrieb:

So true, I think it's much less the detail as it is about being able to get the balance across the frequencies right.

To push an analogy, I wonder if some 'detailed' systems draw inspiration from the Barbie Doll, accentuate the 'right' curves to make it attractive, never mind whether this is natural in real life or not.

F'rinstance, what you and I, both missed in the Primare/Dali combo, was the fullness of mid range.

Lastly as Arj says- 'But Accuracy to source is not something which I have on my personal list of favourites.. As long as the presentation is good and most instruments are identifiable tonally (individually and as a whole!) as to what they are, I am quite happy with it .'

Cheers
K

Manek
Inventar

#25 erstellt: 06. Jun 2006, 13:21

yes krish,
the midrange was thin & grainy(especially with the primare cdp), the highs were not very comforting as well and
un-settling to a person who would like to relax whilst listening to his/her music. Perhaps heavy metal, death metal and such similar forms of music/sounds would find synergies with this amp+cdp.

Remember the opera tube cdp did settle things down a bit and did give a slightly fuller midrange and rounded off the edgy sound at the top end a bit but not enough to make one comfortable.

Sadly, I really dont know why such an expensive amp + cdp combo would not have a full bodied midrange. Louis Armstrong sounded weak and de-balled, if I may coin a word, and the band's brass section sounded like they were overdozed on steriods. Not the kind of balance one is looking for, is it ?

Maybe this kind of sound is in vogue these days

Manek.

ani
Stammgast

#26 erstellt: 06. Jun 2006, 14:08

Dear Manek & Krish,

I happened to spend a week with Primare CD31 and I30 and Monitor Audio GR20 speakers. I am very surprised to hear comment on midrange being recessed; grainy and Hi freq uncomforting. I strongly feel something dreadfully wrong with the setup you heard. My experience was that it was too soothing and that all kinds of music played through the combo was putting me to sleep

clean mids, very resolving lows and sweet highs but the system as a whole was no dynamic enough to my taste. The crescendoes were not just taking off, as is the conductor asking the musicians to play softly, using a balanced interconnect there was a positive improvement but still this was one of the reason why I didnt go for it.

The I30 amp is better than their CD31, they need better CD players to be better appreciated.

Anil

Krish
Stammgast

#27 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 04:26

ani schrieb:

Hmm.While my comments are resticted to that one audition, Manek has had the opportunity to hear Primare two more times, in different permutions.If you read his post, he says that he was disappointed all three times.Interestingly on all all three occasions, he was with people with widely differing tastes in music.
.
Anyway the point here is not to rubbish Primare, in so much as debate the value on offer, especially since this brand is hardly what you would call affordable.

Cheers

Manek
Inventar

#28 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 04:52

Ani , really ! Am very surprised ! My experience 3 times was anything but smooth.

As krish said, its a matter finding the value on offer and besides looks, havent seen value in it. If you read the press writings on Primare its smack between what both of us experienced.

BTW that Opera set of tube cdp+ tube amps sounded good. Dont know if you have heard that set Ani.

Manek.

ani
Stammgast

#29 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 06:13

Yes Manek, the press have placed this combo right in the middle and I felt your comment apt " Maybe this kind of sound is in vogue these days

"

No I havent heard Opera tube CD player. The I30 amp along with my Perreaux CD1p was way ahead of the full primare combo. May be the amp is sensitive to speakers, the Dali may be bit rough , it can be anything

I was wondering why we both are at the extreme ends and the press right smack in the middle

Anil

Manek
Inventar

#30 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 06:30

Ani,

thats my point also, I'm sure its good press management by the primare guys where a very balanced view is given to entice the buyers, it reads almost like the perfect amp

....BTW I heard it with dalis and dynaudio focus floors, audience 52's as well.

Hey, Perreaux products are pretty neat. I have heard their big integrated amp(200 watter), my friend has one. Its awesome. Something really nice about amps made in new zealand

Did you get your perreaux from Sushil ?

Manek.

ani
Stammgast

#31 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 06:33

yes Manek,

Radiance and CD1p from Sushil

Manek
Inventar

#32 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 06:43

Ani
Stick with your perreaux my friend...should be very nice sounding stuff !

By the way what made you want to look at another amp ?

Manek.

ani
Stammgast

#33 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 06:58

I was looking for a CD player, Primare CD31 was not performing well with my Primaluna PL1 so though of giving Primare system a chance to perform but was not to my taste. I am not using Radiance R200i, fell in love with tube

but still miss the sweet solid Radiance

square_wave
Inventar

#34 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 07:09

Interesting discussion.
I have a strong feeling primare is very sensitive to setups. I have listened to a primare integrated with linn Katans/ninka and proacs. I don’t remember the cd player though. I found the amp pretty smooth and refined.I agree it is not very warm when you compare it with a plinius but it is far from cold and sterile. I have an allergy to anything cold and sterile so I would have been easily annoyed if it was such.

[Beitrag von square_wave am 07. Jun 2006, 07:10 bearbeitet]

Manek
Inventar

#35 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 10:40

Ani,
Now that I think of it, I had played the opening movement of the "Emperor" concerto and I remember not being pleased at all by it but cant seem to recollect what was wrong.

The radiance amp from perreaux is what my pal has as well. Nice amp. really nice amp. You still have it assume.

Manek.

Krish
Stammgast

#36 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 10:54

square_wave schrieb:

Hey Square Buddy,

This is how Manek and I felt. In fact my frame of reference was my current set up of Arcam/Linn which is very musical.

The set up that we both heard sounded extremly harsh and unmusical to my unsophisticated ears.

BTW what exactly would you mean when you say -'I found the amp pretty smooth and refined.I agree it is not very warm when you compare it with a plinius but it is far from cold and sterile.'

I mean either it either is or it isn't No

Please explain...

Cheers
K

Manek
Inventar

#37 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 12:30

Krish, what I would probably gather from square's post is possibly you and I are more "allergic" to anything which is "cold and sterile" and our tolerance levels for "cold and sterile" are less comapred to others.

Manek.

square_wave
Inventar

#38 erstellt: 07. Jun 2006, 13:28

Dear Krish,
It is just my observation

I am more into the analogue/vinyl camp and I practically grew up with the turntable and I am pretty allergic to anything cold and sterile. The plinius sa102 is one of the most analogue sounding SS amp I have heard. It’s ability to hold details together and paint warm/analogue sounding soundstage is just awesome. I was just comparing the two. To me the primare is not in the same league as the plinius but scores high on the refinement/warmth/details department. It never sounded cold and sterile to me. To me bryston monoblocks connected to dynaudio audience 52se sounded cold and sterile.
What you guys heard must be true but I have a feeling, the amp must not have properly burnt in or the associated equipment may not be in synergy or as Manek said, your tolerance levels may be very much lower than mine. I once heard a rega Jupiter cd player playing through a cadence valve amp which sounded so cold that it felt icy. I was shocked. I heard the same cd player playing through a JR/Aragon/proac setup and it sounded perfectly analogue. I am still confused. The answer could be anything like synergy/mis-matched cables/burn in time etc……….