Stereo amp or Home theater ?

I think the more technically inclined members can give you in depth reasons why a surround amp / receiver won’t do a good job with stereo.

My thoughts at a macro level:
The purist approach works better for the cleanest sound. The more circuits and unnecessary stuff you have in a gear, the more distorted it sounds. A typical AV receiver however is a “jack of all trades” with numerous circuits in one noisy enclosure all fed by the same power supply.

The stereo amp is a purist design. A separate preamp and power is even better. Even for surround there are people who adopt the purist approach. Separate pre/processor and mono block power amps for each speaker and stuff like that…………..

Add to it (what Square Wave wrote) the cost & quality of components used.

A few 'Bird's Eye View' pointers :

1. A Home Theatre (HT) system is primarily a VISUAL entertainer, with Audio used to Enhance the experience. I suppose that most of the Brain's stimulus comes from the Visual content, and only ( a smaller ) part of the faculty goes towards audio.

As a result, the sound 'NEEDS' to be more 'phenomenal' and exagerated. A Bloated Bass ( with resonance to add effect by vibrating the seat ) is more desirable for HT applications, where the sound needs to compete for the Brain's attention.

Loundess is more important than accuracy. The HT Sound Must grab your balls .... yr Eyeballs... and as we know, eyeballs cant listen too well..

2. A HT receiver has 5 power amps provided at the cost ... or often HALF the cost that you would pay for a descent 2 Channel Hi Fi Amplifier.

Considering this aspect alone, you should compare a Rs 80,000 Stereo amp with a Rs 2,00,000 HT Receiver,

Ofcourse, the points listed below, tilt the matter even further.

3. The HT receiver has SEVERAL other EXPENSIVE components such as the muliti channel sound processing, Video processing, and ofcourse a more elaborate display, and the scores of switches and plethora of connectors on the rear panel. All that takes precious budget that has to be shared between FIVE audio channels ...

Even in a Stereo Amp, the chasis, switches connectors, knobs and Potentiomters ( Volume, Balance, Tone Controls ) are a MAJOR expense... bigger budget than for the Pre Amp section of an integrated amplifier......

The matter is compounded for HT receiver's sound quality allocation, which needs Money spent on a high capacity Power supply, audio grade components, etc....

[quote="Amp_Nut"]

Even in a Stereo Amp, the chasis, switches connectors, knobs and Potentiomters ( Volume, Balance, Tone Controls ) are a MAJOR expense... bigger budget than for the Pre Amp section of an integrated amplifier......
quote]

Good observation

Thanks for the explanation and elaboration. Now I would like to shift the question from amp to speakers.

Speakers can be bracketed for example

stereo speakers (Proac,Dyne,Cadence,Dali)

Hometheater speakers (Wharfdale,Mission,Tannoy)

Hybrid( Epos,B&W, Monitor Audio,KEF)


What would be the benchmarks for such classification ?

Regards,

vjc

vjc schrieb:

Thanks for the explanation and elaboration. Now I would like to shift the question from amp to speakers. Speakers can be bracketed for example stereo speakers (Proac,Dyne,Cadence,Dali) Hometheater speakers (Wharfdale,Mission,Tannoy) Hybrid( Epos,B&W, Monitor Audio,KEF) What would be the benchmarks for such classification ? Regards, vjc

Wow ! How did you arrive at these classifications ?

vjc schrieb:

Thanks for the explanation and elaboration. Now I would like to shift the question from amp to speakers. Speakers can be bracketed for example stereo speakers (Proac,Dyne,Cadence,Dali) Hometheater speakers (Wharfdale,Mission,Tannoy) Hybrid( Epos,B&W, Monitor Audio,KEF) What would be the benchmarks for such classification ? Regards, vjc

not really the right classification !

but in "spirit" amp_nuts discourse on different requirements remain the same for speakers as well

vjc schrieb:

Thanks for the explanation and elaboration. Now I would like to shift the question from amp to speakers. Speakers can be bracketed for example stereo speakers (Proac,Dyne,Cadence,Dali) Hometheater speakers (Wharfdale,Mission,Tannoy) Hybrid( Epos,B&W, Monitor Audio,KEF) What would be the benchmarks for such classification ? Regards, vjc

vjc Sir, while I don't mean to be rude, I think you've got your fundas a little muddled up here.

How are Epos,B&W, Monitor Audio and KEF "hybrid" designs? This is news to me! Of all the brands you mention here Cadence is the only one (I know of) that is makes hybrid designs.

Wharfedale,Mission,Tannoy are Home Theatre speakers? sure you can use them in HT applications but I have seen some very good stereo setups with these brands. And they rock!!

All the speakers you have mentioned here can be used in stereo AND HT applications!

Home Theatre speakers have 1 Main requirement - for the Centre Channel speaker. The Centre Channel speaker MUST be magnetically well shielded, so that the speaker's magnetic field does not distort the picture or cause a colour patch, when placed close to a CRT ( conventional Tube ) display.

This I think is the ONLY Mandatory requirement for HT . ( Guys I am Not into HT so please correct me if I am wrong ).

Other characteristics Preffered but Not Mandatory for Home Theatre applications are :

1. Good Mid Freq characteristics for the centre Channel speaker, since this is usually called on to deliver speach

2. A 'Full' { some-what Bloated } sub woofer sound. A 'Full' bass is almost mandatory, that is wy HT almost always includes a sub.

3. Reproducing High Sound levels in the HT room.

Good HT systems use regular Stereo speakers for the Front & Rear Left & Right Channels.



Incidentally, Hybrid Speakers are called that because their speaker drivers are a mix (hybrid) of more than one technology, such as a Conventional cone speaker for the LF and Mid, and an Electrostatic tweeter ( eg some Cadence models ).

Hybrids, Planars and all technologies can be deployed for Stereo and HT applications, though the HT sub woofer is almost always a cone driver.

Guys please feel free to add / correct me. it will improve my knowledge on HT.

i just get a feeling that by Hybrid , vjc meant HT+Stereo..

but vjc, better not to classify speaker brands into various slots..most brands have multiple offerings with HT and Stereo.

ading to what amp_nut mentioned. a pure HT speaker is usually a sub-sat combo with the sat going down to around 80Hz and rest by the sub.(Fro the full bodied sound) while most speakers used for both would be down to at least 50Hz. if not more..an these are quite acceptable for stereo as well.

Adding to what Arj and Ampnut said,
I have sometimes noticed that hi-end Home theatre buffs usually do not prefer very revealing (highly neutral and unforgiving speakers designed for hi-end two channel stereo) for HT. Such speakers are very unforgiving of partnering equipment and can sound quite harsh with typical hi-end receivers and compressed material output from dvd players.

There are good speakers....then ...there are bad speakers (which booms and makes a lot of noise on its own..read as coloration)

Does it mean Bad speakers (in purely technical terms - not to offend any one) ...is good for HT ??

In my opinion, HT is just a 5 channel extension of the 2-channel stereo concept. The stage is not in front of you (stereo), but the stage is designed to envelope you in a HT environment. I would suppose that the same quality speakers....required for Stereo is required for HT also !!.

I'm not a big HT fan...so aplogize if i sound novice

Regards
Siva.

Siva, I agree with you.

Only, HT is primarily a Visual experience, with Audio adding to the overall impact.

Hence - IMHO, the Audio Setup in a HT system has to sound 'phenominal' or larger than life to provide stimulus.

Also, since the brain is not closely focusing on the audio content, in a HT experience, the brain will be more 'forgiving' of poor quality audio. Infact the audio IS probably poorer quality that on a Red Book CD...

Infact when lean audiophile grade sound is used for HT, the results are less than ideal to un-initiated users, who WANT the Boom and the phenoninal sound to wrench their attention from the Video content ....

I believe its a matter of horses for courses..... atleast to some extent.

That is why I had mentioned in another post a few days ago, that Audiophile CDs may not be the best tool to evauate a HT setup...

Siva, what you say is very true. "Ideally" thats waht HT should be ..but budget is the killjoy. hence the compromise.

reiterating amp_nuts point since the imaging part is already done by the Visual unit, that does not tend to be an issue. and tonal accuracy may not be a concern (well a gun has to sound like the rifle/pisol/cannon that it is)but aspects like dynamism, ability to hear the low whispers, etc will still be criterion.

of course the DVD source being not so great in recording as a CD does make thiings not so hot for the Resolution/neutrality part of stere.

frankly i personally enjoy a movie in a stereo setup..you really do not need the center channel if you are getting PCM out of the DVD as the imaging is excellant. yes the rear surrounds effect is missing but that is a compromise i can live with...

Ah!. Thanks Amp_Nut, Arj,...i got the clarification..

I am sorry that the speaker classification was offensive to some members who are(may be) admirers of various brands listed. I clarify that it was not based on any biased thinking, but a casual categorisation only to emphasize the original question.
The "hybrid' word was meant only to convey the mixed use of HT and Stereo without refering to any particular technology as Arj has rightly said.

Keep rocking !

Thanks

vjc

I don't think anyone is offended VJC. It's a "forum" after all!

Long live stereo hi-fi!

OMHO there is No special speakers for HT.Only constrain I am seeing is budget.You can use four floorstanding in your HT :).Speakers is all about reaching near orginal recording sound reproduction with help of other background players

manz_blr schrieb:

Speakers is all about reaching near orginal recording sound reproduction with help of other background players :)

not sure if i understood that statement..especially the comment in bold..