An amp for 50k rupees or less

Kamalji, sir, a few corollaries from my side.

Also, would you lump Lyrita Audio( and other Indian Audio Brands) as a DIY product?Viren has been running it as a business for the last 15 years.Its not a hobby, this is what he lives on.And he'll give you a tradein when you want to upgrade, he'll pass on improvements free of cost, & you'llget a lifetime of support-which foriegn brand will do that for you? And have you bothered to ever highlight/appreciate this?

1. Nobody said Lyrita is DIY.
2. Viren is a respected gentleman on this forum and nobody doubts his abilities. As a businessman, I think he has a wonderful business model of trade-ins and as a result of that, he has loyal band of customers (or wellwishers, in your case) .
3. Lyrita Audio is a one-man army and (I believe) every piece is individually made by Mr Bakshi himself. While it is true he may not have the bandwidth of his so called "foriegn... big brand... big marketing dept." counterparts, I don't think he could manufacture in the scale of the so called bigger brands.

Basically, my point here is it's not fair to drag Lyrita into your argument with Bhagwan.

And do you buy stuff primarily because of resale value,not because it necessarily sounds the best to your ears?Sounds more like a shopkeepers attitude,instead of that of an audiophile who wants to enjoy MUSIC in the best poss way he can afford-just buy & sell gear, with llesser emphasis on the enjoyment music can bring.

Here sir, I completely disagree. Resale value is essential for me but it doesn't really make me a shopkeeper. It makes me an audiophile who keeps going "up" the chain by buying the best I can afford at that point in time. If I sell my older gear, the seemingly unaffordable "next step" suddenly seems to be within my reach.
I personally think it's wise to look at resale value!

Shahrukh schrieb:

Basically, my point here is it's not fair to drag Lyrita into your argument with Bhagwan.

Exactly my thoughts as well...
It was unnecessary and unexpected IMO.
Lyrita is a brand, one of its kind....how many other such brands do we know (I mean with such extensive support) ?

Bhagwan, I agree with you that there are “cost no object gear “ or “over the top – hiend “ stuff out there which represent the pinnacle of research in audio and offer state of the art sound.
I agree with ARJ also when he says that re-sale value or liquidity is an issue when he invests in something.

But at every level in audio, in most countries, there are small niche brands and DIY champions who can make gear which offer state of the art “sound quality” . For somebody whose PRIMARY CONCERN is SOUND QUALITY (not bothered by liquidity and re-sale issues) this is a REALITY which cannot be ignored.

If a person is rich enough to afford the “state of the art” gear all these rationale may not make much sense because he does not touch any of the rubbish out there in the market. But keep in mind that SOME small niche brands and DIY Champions try to emulate or improve upon the “state of the art”. The trick is to identify them.

Ignorance is bliss !!

At least most of you ( except the bhagwan of the forum ) have acknowledged that Lyrita Audio makes highly musical sounding gear , it represents great value for money ,& that Viren Bakshi is following a business model which is far more customer friendly than most of the " great" foreign brand names.
If you would remember, my initial lament was that though, if pressed hard, we say that there is some nice Indian Hifi
gear being manufactured, we don't spotaneously recommend them when asked for an opinion, which is tantamount to paying lip service.
I mentioned Lyrita because it is the brand that I am the most acquainted with, have heard very often and therefore recommend it wholeheartedly.
I am sure there are other Indian brands too which are equally worthy.Thus, audiophiles located in cities where they have ample opportunities to audition them extensively would do the Audio community greater & more meaningful if they were to recommend such Indian brands which are as worthy of patronage as Lyrita is.
If you would acknowledge that there is some value in what I have said, then you would also consider if there is much point in discussing ad nauseum gear which costs multiples of lacs of rupees.There was a long debate on power cords costing 30-50 thou rupees, an on goung one about CDPs which has added nothing to conventional wisdom(expensive gear sounds better than cheaper gear)on the subject.
If you would scan the requests for recommendations, in a vast majority of cases the budget is under one lac rupees.
Should we not make the effort to acquaint ourselves with worthy Indian brands instead of just trotting out the same old Mordaunt Shorts/Monitor Audio/Wharfdale/Dynaudio so that we can render better advice?
Please give it a think, gentlemen.
I have no argument with Bhagwan, even tho he made a below the belt crack about brownie points which I think was unseemly.I recognise that he inhabits a world which is far removed from the concerns of the majority of Indian audiophiles.He does have experience & I hope he also begins to seriously explore Good Indian Hifi( lets not get into the lofi/midfi labelling , please)so that his contributions can deliver more value.
And Arj, are you sure Arrow/Allen Solly are Indian brands? Then our professors were all wrong!

Shahrukh schrieb:

If I sell my older gear

square_wave schrieb:

But at every level in audio, in most countries, there are small niche brands and DIY champions who can make gear which offer state of the art “sound quality” . Ignorance is bliss !!

its the same case in many fields. unfortunately the brands with the bigger advertising spends get more share of the consumer's mind. i've often noticed quality has nothing to do with popularity. in a lot of cases mediocrity does rule for various reasons the prime one in my opinion is it having the ability to shout louder. there will always be that round the corner chocolatier who beats a cadbury hands down, or that custom bike maker who can put honda or yamaha to shame and if you find such person

Kamal schrieb:

At least most of you ( except the bhagwan of the forum ) have acknowledged that Lyrita Audio makes highly musical sounding gear , it represents great value for money ,& that Viren Bakshi is following a business model which is far more customer friendly than most of the " great" foreign brand names. If you would remember, my initial lament was that though, if pressed hard, we say that there is some nice Indian Hifi gear being manufactured, we don't spotaneously recommend them when asked for an opinion, which is tantamount to paying lip service. I mentioned Lyrita because it is the brand that I am the most acquainted with, have heard very often and therefore recommend it wholeheartedly. I am sure there are other Indian brands too which are equally worthy.Thus, audiophiles located in cities where they have ample opportunities to audition them extensively would do the Audio community greater & more meaningful if they were to recommend such Indian brands which are as worthy of patronage as Lyrita is. If you would acknowledge that there is some value in what I have said, then you would also consider if there is much point in discussing ad nauseum gear which costs multiples of lacs of rupees.There was a long debate on power cords costing 30-50 thou rupees, an on goung one about CDPs which has added nothing to conventional wisdom(expensive gear sounds better than cheaper gear)on the subject. If you would scan the requests for recommendations, in a vast majority of cases the budget is under one lac rupees. Should we not make the effort to acquaint ourselves with worthy Indian brands instead of just trotting out the same old Mordaunt Shorts/Monitor Audio/Wharfdale/Dynaudio so that we can render better advice? Please give it a think, gentlemen. I have no argument with Bhagwan, even tho he made a below the belt crack about brownie points which I think was unseemly.I recognise that he inhabits a world which is far removed from the concerns of the majority of Indian audiophiles.He does have experience & I hope he also begins to seriously explore Good Indian Hifi( lets not get into the lofi/midfi labelling , please)so that his contributions can deliver more value.

No offense meant Kamal but to me its an over-reaction to something which is not as complicated as this post of your seems to be a response to.

First of all, I think people like Bhagwan69, sbfx, msb1, amp_nut, Bombaywalla and few others who have listened/owned a lot more gears (all the way to hi-hifi) actually bring in a lot of experience, knowledge and over-all a different kind of maturity into this forum.
If you scan through the threads there are many discussions related to entry/mid level systems and there are times when people feel there is nothing much we are gaining here by discussing the same things again and again, ultimately concluding the "Trust your own ears" mantra every time (some times with a fight and other times without it).

IMO there is absolutely nothing weird in discussing power cords worth lacs or for that matter CDPs....to me it brings in a lot of value to the overall content of this forum and people do get enlightened by such discussions. Rejecting those discussions as not as worthy as some other discussions is IMO illogical and unwarranted.
We go searching and reading Audio Asylum (where as there are hardly any Indian gears discussed there) when we are upgrading our equipments or even just for knowing about an equipment...thats because our forum is very limited in those aspects. And whatever little value the limited number of people out here are adding out of their experience, thats not being taken in the right spirit IMO.

As for recommending Indian gear is concerned. There are two things I would like to highlight here:

1. There are quite a few people who recommend Indian gears provided they like it. Case in point Lyrita...its again the same thing, people who like it reccommend it but one also has to look at the requirements of the person in need. Lyrita cannot be reccommended to everyone....one has to be open to low-powered tubed gears knowing what compromises it involves. That is not the case with most newbies.

2. Recommending Indian gears just because we are Indians is BS. I wouldnt take advice from someone who I know has this kind of a mindset because that means I am not being given all the right choices. I wouldnt take suggestion from a forum if they only recommend gears of their country...simple.
We are audiophiles and thats the primary reason we are here...anything that sounds good to your ears should be recommended IMO.

I absolutely mean no offence to you Kamal but I clearly dont subscribe to such reservations.

Er.. what happened to that amp under 50k?

First of all, I think people like Bhagwan69, sbfx, msb1, amp_nut, Bombaywalla and few others who have listened/owned a lot more gears (all the way to hi-hifi) actually bring in a lot of experience, knowledge and over-all a different kind of maturity into this forum.

Agree. They bring a lot of maturity and experience into the forum. I have all the respect for them.
But you are ignoring the fact that there is a different kind of experience to be gained from others who have traveled on a different path. That has to given equal value. I know quite a few experienced and stinking rich audiophiles who have the means but choose DIY or other alternatives than boutique brands. They don’t hang around this forum. That’s all.

As for recommending Indian gear is concerned. There are two things I would like to highlight here: 1. There are quite a few people who recommend Indian gears provided they like it. Case in point Lyrita...its again the same thing, people who like it reccommend it but one also has to look at the requirements of the person in need. Lyrita cannot be reccommended to everyone....one has to be open to low-powered tubed gears knowing what compromises it involves. That is not the case with most newbies.

There are other niche manufacturers also in the Indian scenario that can cater most of the requirements. Be it newbie or experienced.

I was going to 'abstain' from writing on this thread.
I did not want to rub any forum member the wrong way, now did I want to say anything that would be considered derogatory by my or any one elses standard.

However, I am writing this to appreciate what Abhi & Square have written.

I have been a part of this forum for many years & over time, I have seen people [who I have never met] change. That to me is important.

My intent to be here is to make people 'grow' in audio. It is not to prove that mine is better than yours or anything like that.

I like Mr. Bakshi. He is a nice gentleman. Well spoken & well mannered. I enjoy meeting him. His knowledge on music is great & I respect him for that.

Indian audio companies are existant & they do try to improve. Cadence - 15 years, see where they were and where they have come. Commendable effort. I bow to their efforts & accomplishments.

I just want to state, I am here to learn & share. I do not want to run down any person or any company or any product.

If I have said something that has offended any one, I apologise for it. My intent was not to get personal !!

Thanks.

But you are ignoring the fact that there is a different kind of experience to be gained from others who have traveled on a different path.

How did you conclude that I ignore them ?? Is it because I dont buy them ?
BTW, I give resale value the least importance...and I buy what sounds good to my ears, no matter where it is made, used or new, how it looks, branded or unbranded.

But you are ignoring the fact that there is a different kind of experience to be gained from others who have traveled on a different path. That has to given equal value.

Sorry...I disagree...how much value one gives to what kind of experience is very subjective.
Arj may not care much for experience around DIY equipments,
Kamal may not care from the experience one shares from using a 100k power cord,
You may not care about big brands.
(P.S All the above illustrations are just hypothetical )

You are free to discuss a 20k amplifier or a 100k cable...whoever feels its important would participate.
But one cannot declare that discussion A is more important than discussion B. Its a personal choice.

I know quite a few experienced and stinking rich audiophiles who have the means but choose DIY or other alternatives than boutique brands. They don’t hang around this forum. That’s all.

So what ?

There are other niche manufacturers also in the Indian scenario that can cater most of the requirements. Be it newbie or experienced.

Like Sonodyne ??
Just kidding..

Whoever knows brands like that, has auditioned them, like them, think they are VFM would always recommend I suppose.
So...??

How did you conclude that I ignore them ?? Is it because I dont buy them ? BTW, I give resale value the least importance...and I buy what sounds good to my ears, no matter where it is made, used or new, how it looks, branded or unbranded.

Buying and ignoring are two different things. Some people like and respect what is done in the DIY community but may not buy because of various reasons.

Sorry...I disagree...how much value one gives to what kind of experience is very subjective. Arj may not care much for experience around DIY equipments, Kamal may not care from the experience one shares from using a 100k power cord, You may not care about big brands. (P.S All the above illustrations are just hypothetical )

We are not talking about what you agree to or not. Whether you agree or not does not take the value of any experience. You are free to agree or disagree.

You are free to discuss a 20k amplifier or a 100k cable...whoever feels its important would participate. But one cannot declare that discussion A is more important than discussion B. Its a personal choice.

Of course it is a personal choice. Who is disagreeing with you?

I know quite a few experienced and stinking rich audiophiles who have the means but choose DIY or other alternatives than boutique brands. They don’t hang around this forum. That’s all. So what ?

It makes any other argument or experience as relevant as your argument. That’s what.

Like Sonodyne ?? Just kidding.. Whoever knows brands like that, has auditioned them, like them, think they are VFM would always recommend I suppose.

The only guy who recommends sonodyne on the forum is you. I do not even consider them as low fi. Comparing them to good DIY is done by IDIOTS.

It is getting reallllly uuuuuugggggggggggggggggglllllllly guys. Please stop it.

Now, what is a good amp for 50k ?

There was recently a post about a Bangaore firm selling tube amps... it looked nice. Can someone post that link again...i could not find it through search.

First of all, I think people like Bhagwan69, sbfx, msb1, amp_nut, Bombaywalla and few others who have listened/owned a lot more gears (all the way to hi-hifi) actually bring in a lot of experience, knowledge and over-all a different kind of maturity into this forum

Really?That if you spend megabucks, you'll get a better sounding system?Is'nt that self evident?When have these gentlemen ever discussed & sincerely recommended systems/components which are within the reach of most of us?When they do that then I'll sit up & listen & applaud.

IMO there is absolutely nothing weird in discussing power cords worth lacs or for that matter CDPs....to me it brings in a lot of value to the overall content of this forum and people do get enlightened by such discussions. Rejecting those discussions as not as worthy as some other discussions is IMO illogical and unwarranted

Again, what value?That a 100,000 buck power cord is better than a 100 buck one?Self evident is'nt it?
Someone on the forum tried out a home brewed power cord made by Jochen.Now that is very possibly some news that can add value. Its news that I & a lot of others can use.
Similarly, I tried out Lyritas I/C's vs a few international brands in a similar price range found them better and posted my experience.That led some people to try them out also & they found them a good value.Again ,news that you can use.
Abhi, please try to understand what i'm driving at-
# What we discuss should have real life usefulness for it to have value.
# There are a lot of forums carrying reviews of International brands.What we write must add to the sum total of knowledge, at least in the Indian context.
# Who recommended that you shld buy Indian gear just because its Indian stuff? But if its of comparable quality/represents better value, why not share it for the benefit of others in the forum.
# I recommend Lyrita because I know it well. I also stated that there is other Indian gear avaailable in other cities which may be of other kinds-Solid State, Multi driver.We would be adding value to the Forum if we take the trouble to audition them, AND IF THEY ARE GOOD & REPRESENT VALUE,
post our experience & recommendations.
This Forum needs to differentiate itself & I feel we should focus on these aspects also rather than going round & round in inane discussions.
You may/may not agree ,thats your prerogative buts thats what I feel sincerely.

Now, what is a good amp for 50k ? There was recently a post about a Bangaore firm selling tube amps... it looked nice. Can someone post that link again...i could not find it through search.

Audire!

They make single driver speakers too!!

Now you're talking, Shahrukh!
Why not audition their gear & post a review?
I'm sure it'll be of interest AND use to a lot of guys.
And I'm equally certain there'll be a lot of other Indian Audio gear which is worthy of review & discussion in which I hope the "Gurus" will participate.

We are not talking about what you agree to or not. Whether you agree or not does not take the value of any experience. You are free to agree or disagree.

Whats up sir...?? I know I am free to agree or disagree .
All I said is, your statement of "That has to given equal value." doesnt make sense as its subjective. How much value one gives to the experience of a fellow audiophile cannot be dictated and should'nt be demanded.

Of course it is a personal choice. Who is disagreeing with you?

You didnt get it...chalo forget it.

It makes any other argument or experience as relevant as your argument. That’s what.

If it was just for the sake of argument that you had written it...thats okay..whatever you want you can write.
I thought you wanted to actually convey something hence I provoked.

The only guy who recommends sonodyne on the forum is you.

There are many such products (I mean niche products ) that are recommended by only one person on this forum...so ??

I do not even consider them as low fi. Comparing them to good DIY is done by IDIOTS.

You get angry very soon....cmon chill man!!!

Shahrukh schrieb:

Audire! They make single driver speakers too!!

Have been hearing a lot about them lately. What are their prices like? I guess their Solaris is the cheapest?

Kamal schrieb:

Now you're talking, Shahrukh! Why not audition their gear & post a review? I'm sure it'll be of interest AND use to a lot of guys. And I'm equally certain there'll be a lot of other Indian Audio gear which is worthy of review & discussion in which I hope the "Gurus" will participate.

Wish I could, sir. Alas, I have not auditioned or had the chance to hear them. YET!

However, I could add a bit in favour of Marantz and Arcam (or even Roksan for that matter) which I consider decent amps within the given budget. Even the JoLida integrateds are quite decent!

sivat schrieb:

It is getting reallllly uuuuuugggggggggggggggggglllllllly guys. Please stop it. Now, what is a good amp for 50k ? There was recently a post about a Bangaore firm selling tube amps... it looked nice. Can someone post that link again...i could not find it through search.

I think you mean Stark Audio, they have a couple of valve amps...A2V in Indranagar deals with them.

I haven't heard these amps but have spoken to the guys...seems like they know what they are talking about...worth a dekko I reckon...

However, I could add a bit in favour of Marantz and Arcam (or even Roksan for that matter) which I consider decent amps within the given budget. Even the JoLida integrateds are quite decent

Shahrukh, there are plenty of reviews & opinons about these amps available already.
Lets try to add something new.
Plz do audition & write about the Audire Eqpt when you can.
That'll be a real help.

Dear Kamalji,

Clearly you feel STRONGLY about promoting locally manufactured gear. That is a lovely sentiment, and certainly one that needs more mention on this forum.

That point is Very Well taken.

May I suggest that YOU take the lead, and go out and LISTEN to this stuff and post Your views and reviews after auditioning them ?

At this moment, I see your role as an arm-chair critic that seems to say that he does not want to hear any more about Foreign manufactured products, even if they are relatively low priced ( eg your response to Shahrukh's post above ).


You lament that there is nothing worthwhile posted on this forum, and (my ? ) comments after hearing a Rs 100K cable are quite irrelevant to this forum.

Rather than churning the waters, please do get active, and put time and effort into YOUR cause rather than be-littling other's interests or comments.

Why dont YOU seek our Audaire, Siva's products and other nicely made Indian products, rather than champion a single brand / product, and critisise all else ?

I would Cetainly like to read reviews and thoughts of Indian manufactured products on this forum, and I hope that you will stand up, and make that effort it takes, to listen to them and write about them.

A good general leads from the front... does not provoke from the arm-chair with little or no field experience.

Amp_nut, lets give a little credit where its due.


Kamalji has indeed written a review on Lyrita Audio equipment. Although it was quite a saccharine sweet one, it was rather exhaustive nonetheless.

And kudos to you Kamalji for sharing with us those wonderful times that you the and the good doctor experienced with Indian made valve equipment.

Kamalji, I would join amp_nut in urging you to tell us about more such Indian brands, especially since you feel so strongly about them. It is through your reviews that lesser informed compadres like us will be more enlightened.

More power to you sir! (And no, not from some $1000 power cord. )

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Dear Kamalji, Clearly you feel STRONGLY about promoting locally manufactured gear. That is a lovely sentiment, and certainly one that needs more mention on this forum. That point is Very Well taken. May I suggest that YOU take the lead, and go out and LISTEN to this stuff and post Your views and reviews after auditioning them ? At this moment, I see your role as an arm-chair critic that seems to say that he does not want to hear any more about Foreign manufactured products, even if they are relatively low priced ( eg your response to Shahrukh's post above ). You lament that there is nothing worthwhile posted on this forum, and (my ? ) comments after hearing a Rs 100K cable are quite irrelevant to this forum. Rather than churning the waters, please do get active, and put time and effort into YOUR cause rather than be-littling other's interests or comments. Why dont YOU seek our Audaire, Siva's products and other nicely made Indian products, rather than champion a single brand / product, and critisise all else ? I would Cetainly like to read reviews and thoughts of Indian manufactured products on this forum, and I hope that you will stand up, and make that effort it takes, to listen to them and write about them. A good general leads from the front... does not provoke from the arm-chair with little or no field experience.

Shahrukh schrieb:

More power to you sir! (And no, not from some $1000 power cord. )

That was cheeky !!! But I like the +ve energy. Keep it up !!


[BTW - PLMM = 1,995/- US $'s]

May I suggest;

An audition done by Kamalji between Mr. Bakshi's tube amp & Cacence's VA-1 [will have to find one in ND].
Speaker & front end should be common.

Both the Amps are of Indian origin. We will get an idea of how good or where each stands in comparison to the other !!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

May I suggest; An audition done by Kamalji between Mr. Bakshi's tube amp & Cacence's VA-1 [will have to find one in ND]. Speaker & front end should be common. Both the Amps are of Indian origin. We will get an idea of how good or where each stands in comparison to the other !! :*

Sir your suggestion is indeed a good one. And it would be very interesting because whoever's heard the SET (and there are quite a few on the forum - not just our Dilli friends) say it does indeed beat the pants off the VA1.

But we have no response yet?!! Especially after all this brouhaha...! Disappointing.

Indeed any reviews of Indian gear would be most welcome but they need not be with a view to compare "x" to "y." Here in Mumbai we are far away from all these companies so it would be nice to learn more about them beyond the specs seen on their web site or brochure. Already 4 brands have been mentioned here: Lyrita Audio, Cadence, Audire, Stark Audio. For speakers we can add Acoustic Portrait as well. I for one would be grateful for any experiences passed on about them.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

May I suggest; An audition done by Kamalji between Mr. Bakshi's tube amp & Cacence's VA-1 [will have to find one in ND]. Speaker & front end should be common. Both the Amps are of Indian origin. We will get an idea of how good or where each stands in comparison to the other !! :*

i have not heard the cadence amp and lyrita audio's amp with same speakers but i have heard cadence gear on many occasions with a nad cd player and jolida tube. it was a prime choice for me while i was deciding. so i can put in a few words on the combo of the cadence amp and speakers (aritas, divas, avitas) and lyrita audio's combo of the SET and single driver speakers.

fit and finish: cadence scores very high compared to lyrita audio. even the cadence stands look lovely!

treble: cadence scores in terms of more being heard. with the lyrita combo the volume seems somehow lower or less. in terms of quality though, lyrita wins as explained in next paragraph.

sound: the esl panels give the avitas the edge in treble smoothness and extension. overall though lyrita scores big time with the sound being infinitely more involving and revealing. differences from recording to recording are very apparent. nuances are captured that the cadence combo misses, probably the result of the SET's charater and the single paper driver's ability to respond faster.

the cadence combo needs to be driven to sound good. at lower volumes one feels the need to 'pump it up' to get some satisfaction. with the lyrita combo even at low listening levels the same amount of detail and extraction of nuance are present.

with regard to quantity of bass, i dont remember too well. lyrita definitely surprised me though with the quantity and quality of bass (very tuneful) considering the reports i have read which seem to suggest that the bass is the achilles heel.

the cadence can definitely be played at higher volumes. the lyrita combo with only 3 watts obviously cannot. in my listening room (average hall size) the bass is felt in my chair and the volume is loud enough to make normal conversation a little difficult. but blast it i cannot.

the price difference is huge! the cadence amp is double the price of the lyrita audio SET. as for whether its worth it, i'd say listen and come to your own judgement. i've voted with my money!

on one visit to pune, the guy put on a demo cd (well recorded) and the combo of the jolida tube cd, roksan kandy amp and aritas sounded heavenly. then switch to a normal pink floyd wall cd and all the magic disappeared. with the lyrita combo the magic is there on every cd not just some demo well recorded cd on which you can hear finger slides and keys being plonked and plunked.

with one particular cd i heard (blue oyster cult - dont fear the reaper track), the cd is not so well recorded. its a compilation old 70's rock. with the cadence combo (aritas and va1) it sounded lousy. with the lyrita combo the same track one was well aware that the recording was below par yet there was magic, separation and sheer feeling in the song.

as a footnote, i listen to seventies rock, heavier rock like ac/dc, iron maiden etc, a little jazz, blues, some classical piano, classical guitar and violin, soft rock. on the heavier rock like deep purple, iron maiden etc with the lyrita combo i sometimes feel the need for more power but the tone and separation of two guitars soloing away is far more apparent compared to any other system i have heard. if you are familiar with seventies rock, its angst, lyric driven, with attitude overflowing, not some sterile, glazed over manufactured sound that most pop bands with slick producers feature today. that attitude comes out pure and whole. as a trade off for power its very very good i'd say! the cadence simply could not capture that attitude.

one big plus point of the lyrita combo is the way sounds fade away. that contributes a lot to the initial note's character. it does not sound cut off, there's a wholeness to the note and it establishes a sense of space in which the instruments are playing. the music sounds 'complete' for want of a better word or way to say it.

i dont not want to be controversial but to my mind cadence is definitely overpriced for the performance it offers compared to the other good brands available. then again tastes vary so if you feel otherwise do vote with your money!

ability to trade in: dont know about cadence's policy. so someone can fill this in. viren offers trade in if you move up to a higher model, unlimited support, instant shipping of spares, instant support on issues and the ability to pick up the phone and just have a chat on something.

regards

Shahrukh schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: May I suggest; An audition done by Kamalji between Mr. Bakshi's tube amp & Cacence's VA-1 [will have to find one in ND]. Speaker & front end should be common. Both the Amps are of Indian origin. We will get an idea of how good or where each stands in comparison to the other !! :* Sir your suggestion is indeed a good one. And it would be very interesting because whoever's heard the SET (and there are quite a few on the forum - not just our Dilli friends) say it does indeed beat the pants off the VA1. But we have no response yet?!! Especially after all this brouhaha...! Disappointing. :(

problem is very few have heard the SET and the cadence va1. a few who come to mind are the pune member whose name eludes me right now, who preferred the cadence va1 to viren's push pull amp, myriad a cadence owner who moved up to the avitas and who quite frankly posted that viren's combo was more musical, and myself. sorry if i've left anyone else out. .

particleman schrieb:

Indeed any reviews of Indian gear would be most welcome but they need not be with a view to compare "x" to "y." Here in Mumbai we are far away from all these companies so it would be nice to learn more about them beyond the specs seen on their web site or brochure. Already 4 brands have been mentioned here: Lyrita Audio, Cadence, Audire, Stark Audio. For speakers we can add Acoustic Portrait as well. I for one would be grateful for any experiences passed on about them.

i would be interested in hearing the stark tube offerings. will post soon on them.

regards

Thanks Steve. A query though...

with one particular cd i heard (blue oyster cult - dont fear the reaper track), the cd is not so well recorded. its a compilation old 70's rock. with the cadence combo (aritas and va1) it sounded lousy. with the lyrita combo the same track one was well aware that the recording was below par yet there was magic, separation and sheer feeling in the song.

Could this be because the Cadence combo is more resolving and hence makes poor recordings sound just that?

stevieboy schrieb:

Shahrukh schrieb: bhagwan69 schrieb: May I suggest; An audition done by Kamalji between Mr. Bakshi's tube amp & Cacence's VA-1 [will have to find one in ND]. Speaker & front end should be common. Both the Amps are of Indian origin. We will get an idea of how good or where each stands in comparison to the other !! :* Sir your suggestion is indeed a good one. And it would be very interesting because whoever's heard the SET (and there are quite a few on the forum - not just our Dilli friends) say it does indeed beat the pants off the VA1. But we have no response yet?!! Especially after all this brouhaha...! Disappointing. :( problem is very few have heard the SET and the cadence va1. a few who come to mind are the pune member whose name eludes me right now, who preferred the cadence va1 to viren's push pull amp, myriad a cadence owner who moved up to the avitas and who quite frankly posted that viren's combo was more musical, and myself. sorry if i've left anyone else out. .

Yup! That's what I meant. Those who've heard both conclude that the SET sounds better. So a direct AXB between the two would be very interesting indeed!

to give you an analogy, as best as i can think right now, the cadence (and indeed most multidriver speakers and amps other than SET amp combos) are like a heavyweight wwf wrestler, who overpowers his opponent with more weight and sheer physical impact, the lyrita SET combo is more like bruce lee, light on his feet, graceful, quick to react to the situation and give a more nuanced performance. i hope you get the relative point am trying to put across. as i mentioned with the lyrita one is aware that the recording is poor/below par but still detail and nuance and feeling come through.

even poor recordings have some amount of detail and nuance. its just that the amount is not as much perhaps as a well recorded album.

regards

i think any SET would put out far more detail than a hybrid like the cadence or even a push pull as i myself have heard with viren's designs themselves. plus the driver's sensitivity and fast reactions mean a real wealth of detail being dug out.

Hmmm... so it does come down to personal preferences.

I think a side-by-side evaluation is a must.

BTW, where's Kamalji? I was hoping he'd take an active part in these discussions.

stevieboy schrieb:

i think any SET would put out far more detail than a hybrid like the cadence or even a push pull as i myself have heard with viren's designs themselves. plus the driver's sensitivity and fast reactions mean a real wealth of detail being dug out.

But do you recommend the SET for our friend looking for the amp? Or will it only work its magic with the Harmony1 (Or another single driver speaker for that matter)?

stevieboy schrieb:

the price difference is huge! the cadence amp is double the price of the lyrita audio SET.

Wow, I was not aware of Lyrita Audio prices so this is welcome news indeed. Good to know (for me) that it is something affordable that I can aspire to.

stevieboy schrieb:

on one visit to pune, the guy put on a demo cd (well recorded) and the combo of the jolida tube cd, roksan kandy amp and aritas sounded heavenly. then switch to a normal pink floyd wall cd and all the magic disappeared. with the lyrita combo the magic is there on every cd not just some demo well recorded cd on which you can hear finger slides and keys being plonked and plunked.

For me, this is the most telling part of the review. I don't care to analyze the "why" and "how" but the knowledge that it (Lyrita) is a musical amp that will make a majority of recordings sound great is what matters ultimately to an amateur like me.

One thought: each amp has been auditioned while paired with its own brand of speaker. Any chance of hearing the amps with the same set of speakers? I guess thats going to be pretty difficult though.

I do not think anyone has any problem with great sounding gear made outside our country. There are of course great sounding gear made out there. Especially the top of the line models from the great brands. The problem is that only the truly rich can afford them. Fully loaded LP12 on Acoustic research pre/power on Linn articulate speakers……must sound awesome. I wish I was truly rich !

Kamal’s or my argument is about the great options available out here in our country when one is looking at gear at sane prices.
Stevieboy’s review says it all.

I feel if our own brand s offer customers the option of comparing equally priced foreign brands in a listening room they will be more successful. We Indian’s have an affinity for anything designed by white skins so a fair comparison may help for most.

Shahrukh schrieb:

stevieboy schrieb: i think any SET would put out far more detail than a hybrid like the cadence or even a push pull as i myself have heard with viren's designs themselves. plus the driver's sensitivity and fast reactions mean a real wealth of detail being dug out. But do you recommend the SET for our friend looking for the amp? Or will it only work its magic with the Harmony1 (Or another single driver speaker for that matter)?

have invited him over. he has not yet responed to my pm. the SET will work with high sensitivity speakers and ones with simple crossovers and drivers that are more reactive. there are high sensitivity speakers but three to four drivers made of heavy material and complex crossovers that would consume precious watts before making any sound. these would not be do. also stuff like kevlar forget it! bookshelves like the mordaunt short 901is would do. i guess there's a reason most SETs are historically paired with single driver/horn speakers the partnership is amazing!

stevieboy schrieb:

to give you an analogy, as best as i can think right now, the cadence (and indeed most multidriver speakers and amps other than SET amp combos) are like a heavyweight wwf wrestler, who overpowers his opponent with more weight and sheer physical impact, the lyrita SET combo is more like bruce lee, light on his feet, graceful, quick to react to the situation and give a more nuanced performance. i hope you get the relative point am trying to put across. as i mentioned with the lyrita one is aware that the recording is poor/below par but still detail and nuance and feeling come through. even poor recordings have some amount of detail and nuance. its just that the amount is not as much perhaps as a well recorded album. regards

Very precisely put.
This is exactly what I feel when I compare the rethm single driver speaker setup with a multidriver / big amp setup. I have heard some other setups which achieve a balance between the two. One such setup is Siva’s personal speakers with the big set amps.

stevieboy schrieb:

Shahrukh schrieb: stevieboy schrieb: i think any SET would put out far more detail than a hybrid like the cadence or even a push pull as i myself have heard with viren's designs themselves. plus the driver's sensitivity and fast reactions mean a real wealth of detail being dug out. But do you recommend the SET for our friend looking for the amp? Or will it only work its magic with the Harmony1 (Or another single driver speaker for that matter)? have invited him over. he has not yet responed to my pm. the SET will work with high sensitivity speakers and ones with simple crossovers and drivers that are more reactive. there are high sensitivity speakers but three to four drivers made of heavy material and complex crossovers that would consume precious watts before making any sound. these would not be do. also stuff like kevlar forget it! bookshelves like the mordaunt short 901is would do. i guess there's a reason most SETs are historically paired with single driver/horn speakers the partnership is amazing!

Excellent! I think a side-by-side is in order. Partnering equipment will have to be carefully selected though. Why don't you Bangalore guys do it? You've got the SET, Jochen's got the VA1... and y'all have access to a lot of other equipment. Speakers... y'all are spoilt for choice... anything from Cadence's range to Siva's to Arj's to Abhi Pani's... do it guys, I'm sure it'll throw up a lot of interesting insights!

Doesn't sound like a bad idea. I have viren's pre as well paired with a McCormack DNA. I think both these gel quite nicely. The pre is very very transparent... has all the good things associated with tubes but none of the downers.

Before one mentions my tube experience is limited, I'd point out that recently I had the fortune of listening to the Audio Research SP17 paired with an HD220 driving Proac Response D28. It was great but considering the price, I expected it to significantly better my setup. However I didn't feel it was worth it. The amps felt very very tubey and not transparent as they should be.

I've heard the VA-1+Avita combo as well. The VA-1 seemed power starved. The Avitas sounded much better on Abhi's Plinius compared to the VA-1. Again thats my personal opinion.

Guys , I was out the whole day & hence could not participate.
I reiterate my ppoint( sorry for the hiccup-blame the whisky)Viz, in order to add value to the discussions on the forum,we must also audition & report on worthy Indian gear & accessories, apart from foreign gear.
Also, what we discuss should have some relevance to the vast majority on this forum-thats why I said that long winded discussions on multi lac systems, power cords costing more than what most can afford to lay out on entire systems, and cables & interconnects likewise costng around a kidnappers ransom demands are of very limited value to the majority-such discussions are more in the nature of self indulgence than of much practical use.
When I joined the forum, I had no idea whatsoever of valve amps/hi effy speakers.I have now learnt how good they can sound and therefore have no hesitation in recommending that a person out to get a Hifi sound on a budget audition them also.
I have also heard for myself what a diff good quality I/C's & speaker cables can make.I have therefore picked up a set & posted a recommendation that these are available at a reasonable price on a try & return if you dont like it basis.
Amp nut ji, Shahrukh, thanks for acknowledging ,even if in an oblique fashion, that what I have been saying makes some sense,even tho couched in rather sarcastic terms-after all, you bombay boys must show your solidarity to each other!Plz dont subject me to your Armchair/saccharine sweet type of cracks, in the same category as the brownie points crack made by someone else-are you trying to please somebody?
I would love to audition more Indian gear-if there are some setups in Delhi, plz let me know-unfortunately, age & means do not permit me to travel to other cities for the purpose.
And why only me? why do you exclude yourselves from this endeavour?That reminds me, one of the real Gurus of this forum made a trip to Delhi & further up north to a city in Punjab last year. He heard Lyrita Audios' system & then a system in Punjab costing app 50 lac rupees.
Guess which system he posted on? was the cheaper system beneath his consideration?
OK, enuff.
Any auditioning in Delhi/Gurgaon/Faridabad/Noida, plz include me in,any time, any date.
And I'll take it on myself to make notes, write the post etc.

And plz give me credit for bringing the forum back to life-
have you ever seen so many posts on a single thread so quickly in succession?

Kamalji said:

have you ever seen so many posts on a single thread so quickly in succession?

Provoking and be-littling others ( infact practically ALL posts ) will surely get a response..

Kamalji said :

And why only me? why do you exclude yourselves from this endeavour?

As in any hobby, there are different things / issues of interest to different hobbiests. Iterests will be at different levels.

Clearly your interest is at a performance level that is not of interest to me.

Since you are championing a certain level, it is YOUR interest, and YOUR pursuit, and ofcourse anyone else who is also interested. NOTHING wrong in that all all... we just have different interests.

I would love to audition more Indian gear-if there are some setups in Delhi, plz let me know-unfortunately, age & means do not permit me to travel to other cities for the purpose.

Also may I suggest that you pursue the matter More aggressively, rather than sit and and wait for invites.

SEEK out other Indian manufacturers. CONTACT them and ASK them who have bought their products in Delhi. Then invite your self. THAT would be the action path of a true enthusiast.

Kamalji said:

after all, you bombay boys must show your solidarity to each other! ....... -are you trying to please somebody?

That is your fertile imagination, Sir.

I could have said the same of your Single Brand enthusiasm, be it for pre, power, integrated, speakers or cables !

Guess which system he posted on? was the cheaper system beneath his consideration?

I am not the right person to comment on this, but if you read equipment revierws in Hi Fi magazines, they only mention the positives, with only a passing mention of the limitations. Rarely will they even post a review where the system does not float the review's boat.. the editor may ask another reviewer to review.

Given widely varying tastes, that IS the appropriate response.

And I'll take it on myself to make notes, write the post etc.

As you say, there should be a substantial interest for this, given limited budgets, and the need to encourage local Hi Fi manufacturing.

Shahrukh schrieb:

stevieboy schrieb: Shahrukh schrieb: stevieboy schrieb: i think any SET would put out far more detail than a hybrid like the cadence or even a push pull as i myself have heard with viren's designs themselves. plus the driver's sensitivity and fast reactions mean a real wealth of detail being dug out. But do you recommend the SET for our friend looking for the amp? Or will it only work its magic with the Harmony1 (Or another single driver speaker for that matter)? have invited him over. he has not yet responed to my pm. the SET will work with high sensitivity speakers and ones with simple crossovers and drivers that are more reactive. there are high sensitivity speakers but three to four drivers made of heavy material and complex crossovers that would consume precious watts before making any sound. these would not be do. also stuff like kevlar forget it! bookshelves like the mordaunt short 901is would do. i guess there's a reason most SETs are historically paired with single driver/horn speakers the partnership is amazing! Excellent! I think a side-by-side is in order. Partnering equipment will have to be carefully selected though. Why don't you Bangalore guys do it? You've got the SET, Jochen's got the VA1... and y'all have access to a lot of other equipment. Speakers... y'all are spoilt for choice... anything from Cadence's range to Siva's to Arj's to Abhi Pani's... do it guys, I'm sure it'll throw up a lot of interesting insights!

if you really think i'm gonna do it after what happened you're outta yer mind!!!!! check your pm

Kamal schrieb:

And plz give me credit for bringing the forum back to life- have you ever seen so many posts on a single thread so quickly in succession? :prost

Congratulations on your achievement sir. A remarkable feat!

Just makes me wonder whether your great big "cry for justice" was really borne out of passion. Or was it was just a stunt to get "credit"!

Kamal schrieb:

And plz give me credit for bringing the forum back to life- have you ever seen so many posts on a single thread so quickly in succession? :prost

i'll give you that