USB to Digital converter

Welcome to my side of the fence !



This HDD Playback is so good and easy.

The initial set up - is a bit painful..
But, once you have got it right - the pleasure is too good.

All the Best !

THANKS msb1 for the multiple links and detailed post.

I am not only studying it, but saving it too, for later ref.

Regarding your intentions to go the Mac way, I really wonder why when you have already achieved remote control with Foobar and Windows.

From the little I have read on the net, ARARRA is NO Better than Foobar. And you have already sorted out the Foobar drivers for optimal sound.

I am hardly a Mac Evangelist ( there are SO MANY of them ) and the iMac I bought a little of a year ago for almost Rs 1 Lakh has been the least reliable and most troublesome piece of computer hardware I have ever had the mis-fortune to have owned.

If it is user convenience ( Nah - User DELIGHT ) then look at the QSONIX Touch controlled system.

You Owe yourself atleast a demo. Their website demo too is good, but Nothing like a hands on Demo.

Infact, IMHO, for a serious, Ultra User friendly HDD system, either the QSONIX or the SOOLOOS systems are IN-DISPENSABLE.

Incidentally, Norman Audio in Spore has the ( approx S $ 16K Im Told ) SOOLOOS system on clearence at S $ 6K... ( or was it S$ 8K ).

I have never looked REAL Close at the SOOLOOS so dont really know its pros & cons.

But do give QSONIX a look before spending on another platform that is no beter, and at best incrementally different from what you have already achieved ( no mean feat I may add, for what U have done with Foobar and iTouch).

I tried this on my Vista PC. For some reason it keeps saying "failed to load". What am I doing wrong here? MSB?

Shahrukh schrieb:

I tried this on my Vista PC. For some reason it keeps saying "failed to load". What am I doing wrong here? MSB?

Hi,

What did you try and what says "Failed to Load"?

I added the .dll file to the components folder. But when I start foobar, I get this message. Also I don't see any "plugin" option.

I'm talking about THIS:

Foobar Plugin: http://wintense.com/plugins/foo_touchremote Ipod App: Uses Apple's free remote app. Setup Instructions: [url]http://forums.naim-a...2903417/m/4972952727

[/url]

You need to have the Bonjour service running on the PC. This is automatically installed when you install Itunes. So if you dont have Itunes, download and install it. This is most likely the cause of your problem.

The Plugin shows under "tools" in configuration as Iphone/Ipod Touch Remote.

I'm using the latest version of Foobar.

I have Bonjour. Maybe I'll download the latest version of Foobar and try. Will keep you posted.

Get latest versions of Foobar and Itunes.
I assume you have the latest version of Foo_touchremote
http://wintense.com/download/foo_touchremote_0.1.2.1.7z

Yes. I have the latest versions of foo_touchremote, iTunes and the remote app. Maybe upgrading my foobar is the answer.

So I upgraded. And it works. But I can't seem to sort tracks by artist, album, etc. Normal?
Also, is it possible to add tracks to foobar from the iPhone?

Shahrukh schrieb:

So I upgraded. And it works. But I can't seem to sort tracks by artist, album, etc. Normal? Also, is it possible to add tracks to foobar from the iPhone?

This is simply a remote interface. You cant add tracks from Iphone to Foobar and vice versa. Also, all sorting needs to be done in Foobar itself. Iphone will show the library exactly as it is in Foobar (including playlists).

Besides rating it offers identical functionality as when controlling Itunes.

I also use the following apps on Itunes to Power ON and Hibernate the computer.

RemoteBoot to power on the computer using WOL (Wake on Lan). Needs to supported by your LAN card and configured on your comp.

ezDesktop: This lets me view/control the PC desktop on the Iphone. I use a small program called POWEROFF that has a shortcut on the PC desktop set to Hibernate when double clicked. I use this to Hibernate the PC from the Iphone.

You can control all aspects of the PC through ezDesktop but I find it a pain due to the screen size.

Poweroff: http://users.telenet.be/jbosman/applications.html

msb1 schrieb:

You can control all aspects of the PC through ezDesktop but I find it a pain due to the screen size.

The iPad should solve that problem

I have my very modest (neanderthal in comparison to what you guys are implementing in terms of HT servers) iPod Classic based system improved by a whole lot recently by obtaining an Onkyo ND-S1 iPod dock. This dock, like the Wadia i170, takes digital out from my iPod. I was not willing to pay for the i170 so I'm happy to have the far more modestly priced Onkyo ND-S1 do the needful in my 2nd system.
Altho' the ND-S1 clearly states that it uses a tight tolerance clock for low jitter, I have the iPod digital re-sampled by a Monarchy DIP 24/96 before going into my Scott Nixon non-oversampling DAC.
Great sound in my 2nd system, took me 5 minutes to set it up. So far, could not ask for anything more for the price paid.

bombaywalla schrieb:

I have my very modest (neanderthal in comparison to what you guys are implementing in terms of HT servers) iPod Classic based system improved by a whole lot recently by obtaining an Onkyo ND-S1 iPod dock. This dock, like the Wadia i170, takes digital out from my iPod. I was not willing to pay for the i170 so I'm happy to have the far more modestly priced Onkyo ND-S1 do the needful in my 2nd system. Altho' the ND-S1 clearly states that it uses a tight tolerance clock for low jitter, I have the iPod digital re-sampled by a Monarchy DIP 24/96 before going into my Scott Nixon non-oversampling DAC. Great sound in my 2nd system, took me 5 minutes to set it up. So far, could not ask for anything more for the price paid. :prost

Shahrukh schrieb:

msb1 schrieb: You can control all aspects of the PC through ezDesktop but I find it a pain due to the screen size. The iPad should solve that problem :)

Yes;

I use an I-touch.
It works like a song on the foobar.

I now need to get the xbmc [my video server] to work on my itouch...

Hi Bombaywalla,

How much does the Onkyo ND-S1 cost (in the USA) ?

Anyone know if its available India and its cost in Rupees ?

I had bought the Wadia i170 digital doc a couple of years ago, and it did not sound too good in my set up, so I sold it within a week, to a Pune based audiophile, who already had one ( he had 2 systems ! )

Stereophile's tests show that the Wadia i170 has Very high levels of jitter, so Bombaywalla, your re-sampling by a Monarchy DIP 24/96 must be paying off well..

Have you tried it without the Monarchy ?

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Hi Bombaywalla, How much does the Onkyo ND-S1 cost (in the USA) ?

Hi Amp_Nut,
The ND-S1 is not officially available in the USA. go figure!! I bought mine from the UK. I also noted several Audiogon members who bought from Japanese sellers. So, from the UK, the cost was in the $150 region + a modest fee for shipping.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I had bought the Wadia i170 digital doc a couple of years ago, and it did not sound too good in my set up, so I sold it within a week, to a Pune based audiophile, who already had one ( he had 2 systems ! )

yes, I think I remember your telling me this & also I remember hearing this from Bhagwan69. The i170 can sound really very good (I heard a stock unit in an audio store driving a M-F integrated which in turn was driving a pair of Magnepan 1.6 speakers & all mid-priced Straightwire cables) but one has to be patient with it & (for better or for worse) if one wants absolutely top-notch performance, then one has to shell out even more money to get it modified. In both case (modified or not) the use of a re-clocker is a must, I'm told by all users I have had contact thru the various forums.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Stereophile's tests show that the Wadia i170 has Very high levels of jitter, so Bombaywalla, your re-sampling by a Monarchy DIP 24/96 must be paying off well.. Have you tried it without the Monarchy ?

No, I'm afraid that I have not as yet. Doing an A/B comparison is a pain in the rear for me - detracts from my music listening pleasure - but Some day I will. I will post my findings.

Hi,

M2Tech has launched a new USB converter called the Hiface EVO. It ouputs S/PDIF (RCA & BNC), AES/EBU (XLR), optical Toslink, optical ST and I2S (RJ-45). Also has an input for a Master Clock.

From what I have been given to understand, it sounds better than the Wiess INT and Empirical Off Ramp.

I have ordered mine with a 9V battery supply and should hopefully have it in a week or so.

What is particularly of interest to me is the i2s output which is supposedly much better than SPDIF or AES. Will post once I receive it.

Link: http://www.m2tech-hiface.com.au/index.php/hiface-evo

On papers its Fantastic .... with async operation.

I guess the USB port is at the rear ?

What's the price ?

Approx GBP 280 shipped.

Appears to be a Great buy, and Much better than Empirical Audio. Few USB interfaces provide the (ideal for a DAC) I2S interface.

Do post about the sound, and even a comparision with the older product from the same stable.

msb1 schrieb:

Approx GBP 280 shipped.

Thats definitely more VFM than Empirical audio...which you always got a feeling of being overpriced for what it could do.
would be interesting to hear your views on this once you get it !

Have also ordered the ESI Juli@ to use I2S direct from PCI. This avoids going through USB and the various connectors, cables, conversions involved.

I will go direct from PCI to I2S to DAC through a 10cm long CAT5/CAT 6 cable to RJ45. From what I understand this is the best implemntation of digital audio at the moment.

Will post!

msb1 schrieb:

Have also ordered the ESI Juli@ to use I2S direct from PCI. This avoids going through USB and the various connectors, cables, conversions involved. I will go direct from PCI to I2S to DAC through a 10cm long CAT5/CAT 6 cable to RJ45. From what I understand this is the best implemntation of digital audio at the moment. Will post!

Nice;
Right thing to do.
Do send me pics & keep me informed of the results...

Amp_Nut schrieb:

How much does the Onkyo ND-S1 cost (in the USA) ? Anyone know if its available India and its cost in Rupees ? ?

There is an optimized version available from AQVOX http://www.aqvox.de/highend%20ipod%20iphone%20nd%20s1.html If you are interested please contact me and I'll give you the price.

msb1 schrieb:

Have also ordered the ESI Juli@ to use I2S direct from PCI. This avoids going through USB and the various connectors, cables, conversions involved. I will go direct from PCI to I2S to DAC through a 10cm long CAT5/CAT 6 cable to RJ45. From what I understand this is the best implemntation of digital audio at the moment. Will post!

MSB,
is it possible for you to share your HTPC config ? how have you managed to isolate the HTPC noise ?

Does the ESI Juli have a I2S output ? Finally would you have any info on how it compares with the Lynx Card ?

(Sorry for the whole lot of questions..but what you are trying to do is interesting !)

Arj schrieb:

MSB, is it possible for you to share your HTPC config ? how have you managed to isolate the HTPC noise ? Does the ESI Juli have a I2S output ? Finally would you have any info on how it compares with the Lynx Card ? (Sorry for the whole lot of questions..but what you are trying to do is interesting !)

Hi,

HTPC Config is:
1) PC Case: Antec P180 - Silent Case Link
2) Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W Link
3) CPU Cooler: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7
4) RAM: 800mhz Kingston – 4GB
5) HDD: System – 320GB, Music – 1TB
6) CPU: Intel 2.5ghz Duo Core
7) Motherboard: Asus P5QL-EM

The PC is located about 2.5m from my rack. The Antec Case comes with 3 fans with speed switches for all. I run it with 2 fans and it is absolutely silent - I cannot hear it from over 2 feet away. However, it is a rather large case I may need to change it for use with the Juli@ since I would need a case I can place in my rack close to the DAC, as I2S does not travel well far through Cat5/Cat6. Ideal cable length is <10cm. Hence case may be for sale soon.

The Juli@ does not have an I2S connector as such. You need to tap I2S from the pins on the digital board which connect to the analog board. Link

I will soon have the Juli@ card as well as the Hiface EVO USB to I2S converter. Theoretically, the Juli@ should be better but I will A/B both and post.

With regards to the Lynx I have not been able to find any information regarding I2S. According to Lynx it does not support it. Link

Wondering if you guys found the link interesting ???

http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.Guide??

Since you are into the computer audio now...

Regards

HP

msb1 schrieb:

Hi, HTPC Config is: 1) PC Case: Antec P180 - Silent Case ... The Juli@ does not have an I2S connector as such. You need to tap I2S from the pins on the digital board which connect to the analog board. ....... I will soon have the Juli@ card as well as the Hiface EVO USB to I2S converter. Theoretically, the Juli@ should be better but I will A/B both and post.

Thanks for all that info msb.. are the newer dedicated HTPC cases like This

that link in getting I2S out is truly awesome !

will await your experiments on comparisons with the Hiface !

This is the case that is used by me.
I need one that 'sleeps' in my rack...
http://www.theitdepo...abinets_C5P7160.html

Really 'silent'

Thanks bhagwan..this might mean you do not really need a separate LCD monitor !

What is the motherboard you have used ? does that have a Firewire out Or are you using a seprate Firewire card ?

Arj schrieb:

Thanks bhagwan..this might mean you do not really need a separate LCD monitor ! What is the motherboard you have used ? does that have a Firewire out Or are you using a seprate Firewire card ?

I use a remote desktop - operate through my laptop. This is for putting music in etc.
For playback, I use an i-touch so no keyboard / no mouse / no screen.

I used to use a firewire from my mother board to my Weiss.
However, once I sold that, now I just take a simple usb out.

My mother board is ASUS & has a firewire on board. However, I do not know the model number.

This is super convenient & with no loss / drop is sq. that is most important. I had compared it to a meridian CD Player - 808i.2 in CD mode & DAC mode.
I switched only when I was fully convinced...

Anyone familiar with Halide Design ?

Interesting product.If based on Wavelength audio it has to be Async USB .. so must be the same SPDIF converter as in the Ayre USB dac

Has anyone experimented with different USB cables? And do they make a difference?

Also, I was looking at the following Digital Coax cable. Anyone used/using one?

http://blackcatcable.com/page/veloce-digital-cable

msb1 schrieb:

Has anyone experimented with different USB cables? And do they make a difference? Also, I was looking at the following Digital Coax cable. Anyone used/using one? http://blackcatcable.com/page/veloce-digital-cable

I have tried a few - USB Cables & I could not tell much of a diff. I also tried many firewire cables & was not able to come to any firm consensus...
So I guss my inputs are not of much use...here.
My experience here has been like like that of most audiophile when it comes to power cords....[I can hear a huge diff & most audiophile cannot]
However, on USB Cables, I cannot tell 1 from the other..

Thanks Bhagwan,

What about coax digital cables. What is your experience with those?

Digital coaxial cables make as much difference as any other cable in the chain. It is no less !!
The cable you are looking at is from the same stable as the Stereovox cables. Though I have not heard the Veloce but I can vouch for stereovox cables in general. They strike a very good balance between detail and musicality. And they are not very expensive. I am already targeting at the Stereovox XV-Ultra as the next digital cable upgrade.

this whole USB cable thingie is still a mystery, although as per my understanding for Async transmission they should not make a difference.
Gordon Rankin seems to have stated somewhere that the cable needs to have the Power and the data wires well insulated from each other.

Regarding Coax cable..adding to what Abhi has said- Huge differences in cables to me even more so than ICs and big variations from system to system. Getting the right balance of detail, musicality ,(and) transparency is a real challenge

Sometime ago, I had read a post by Steve Nuget of Empirical Audio.

He recommended that Digital cables must be atleast 1.5 meters in length, and I think, preferably twice that length.

Hios argument was that if the cable was short, the signal reflections would come in Very close to the original signal, andform a jitter of the original signal.

If the digital cable is long, the reflection would arrive quite sometime after the original signal and be rejected by even not-so-good jitter rejection circuits.

Arj said:

this whole USB cable thingie is still a mystery, although as per my understanding for Async transmission they should not make a difference.

Hi Arj, Interesting. Could you elaborate on why ?

AN, have tried to find out more about this but could only find some indirect references so far.
Apparently the Jitter effect is the largest effect which gets amplified in regular (Sync) transmission. although i cannot understand why as the clock signal travels in both forms..it is just that the direction is different.

I found Bhagwans experience of the most value as that is a practical example from someone who understands differences in cables.

Personally I have found differences in both Firewire cables and Firewire controllers..but that have been with el Cheapo ones and not with the "Audiophile Grade" ones. I believe at least in Firewire that the controller chip is extremely important (TI based being the best)

For USB also, apparently a separate dedicated PCI to USB card is the best and the PCI gets a better dedicated support form the processor than built in USB cards..hence used that for audio with the other USB outlets for HDD..ideally never use more than 1 USB device as USB takes up processor time (Unlike Firewire). This perhaps makes more differences than cables

Arj schrieb:

......... For USB also, apparently a separate dedicated PCI to USB card is the best and the PCI gets a better dedicated support form the processor than built in USB cards..hence used that for audio with the other USB outlets for HDD....

Hi Arj,

Have you compared onboard to PCI USB? I should try this. Is PCI better or PCI-e?

Thanks

msb1, I have not really compared it and i dont think PCI/PCIe should be very different. the main advantage of PC/PCIe is that it is a higher priority interrupt ie it gets higher priority of the processor time.
Since USB is time sharing ie processor time is shared across those in the same priority, it makes more sense to allot it to higher priority than regular USB and hence the PCI/PCIe option vis-a-vis on oard USB

for the same reason it is recommended that you only have audio on USB and minimize/eliminate on all other USB devices (including mouse/Keyboard /HDD)

I have no other device (keyboard/mouse/monitor) connected to my Audio PC. Only the Hiface. Drives are all SATA.
Since PCI USB cards are pretty reasonable, I will experiment with one today.

BTW, I had no luck using I2S from the Juli@ to the DAC. Tried all permutations and combinations but couldn't get any sound but some warbling and static. Apparently since there is no 'standard' for I2S and everyone has their own implementation plus use different chips, there's no guarantee that I2S will work.

Steve Nugent from Empirical tried to help me with this through another forum but I finally gave up.

The EVO should be with me any day and I will post on that.

Msb

since you use the juli@, I was wondering if you have heard the esi dr dac prime ? If so what are your views on it ?

What are your views on the juli@ ? Would they have the same sonic signature ?

Manek

Manek schrieb:

Msb since you use the juli@, I was wondering if you have heard the esi dr dac prime ? If so what are your views on it ? What are your views on the juli@ ? Would they have the same sonic signature ? Manek

Hi Manek,

I had no luck using I2S on the Juli@. I did not like it through the SPDIF output - the hiface is better. Hence I am not using it.
I have not tried the other cards mentioned by you.

Quoting Alex Peychev of aplhifi:

"I am not a big fan of I2S connection. Just like LSB and MSB protocols, the I2S is intended for internal wiring that is no longer than 20 centimeters, otherwise you need serious buffering in order to eliminate jitter and other artifacts.

I have extensively experimented with EM-U PCI cards which I like a lot. I have obtained better results with the Hiface USB converters. Since my DAC also uses ASRC, the Master Clock is unused."

Hi msb1, i remember sivat also posting something to that effect on I2S.
PS audio seems to be using HDMI (proprietary version) for the transmission maybe the shielded nature of that cable does the transmission better.
Looking forward to your experiments with Evo ..that seems to have a lot of potential.