Help me:high effciency speaker with vintage bookshelf 's shape!

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Beitrag

peters8
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#1 erstellt: 18. Sep 2014, 01:34

Hi my dear friends!
Unfortunately, at this time, I'm in ill-health conditions.For this reason, I've decided to realize a old dream of mine, in order to keep myself active and above of all, in order to avoid and escape from a terrible depression

I'm sure you can understand my sad situation, but it's better to speak about my project!
This project has an immeasurable for me at this time and I hope so much that I can count on your irreplaceable help and on your precious support, because If I'll be alone in this project, surely I don't get anything, because I've not any knowledge in this sector.So I explain my intentions:
I would to built a 40-45 liters boxes with an high efficiency speaker (at least 94 db) and if you think that a tweeter ir required, there's no problem for me!;)
The foundamental and important thing (it's my dream!;)) is "the vintage look" in other words, I wish they had the old "medium-small" bookshelf's shape...look at these example, please;):

http://old-fidelity.de/thread-191.html

Here, in this link you can see several picture in oder to understand what I mean with "old bookshelf's look":

http://www.marktplaa...70-s-verstarker.html

This is my "small-big" dream...and now it's the best moment to realize it!...you decide if it's better a bass reflex, aperiodic system or infinite baffle system...if it's better only a full-range speaker or if a tweeter is necessary for these boxes!!! you are my leaders!!!...don't worry for the result, I don't pretend any special speaker...any hi-end speaker!!!..For me, it's sufficient just a pair of speakers that sound decently!

I like rock, the old german Kraut-rock and the old german electronic music. (I love so much your music,your vintage hi-fi brands,your language and your culture in general ;))

I've seen many speakers that should be the best option (but I've not knowledge in this sector, so you're my mentor and my advicers!!!)
I give you a small list and you'll decide, if you want of course, the best candidate (if there is a good candidate in this list obviously!!!) for this project:

1)

http://www.spectrumaudio.de/breit/beyma8AGN.html

2)Sica LP208.38/1100 (8D 1,5 CS) 4 Ohm

http://www.spectrumaudio.de/

3)Sica LP 208.38/426T

http://www.spectrumaudio.de/

4)http://www.spectrumaudio.de/breit/beyma10AGN.html

5)http://www.spectrumaudio.de/breit/sica/sicaLP266.25-4.html

6)http://www.spectrumaudio.de/breit/sica/sicaLP266.38-4.html

7)http://www.spectrumaudio.de/breit/sica/sicaLP266.38-8.html

8)Ciare CH 201

http://www.ciare.com/pdf/Catalogo/CH201.pdf

Well, as you can see, my reference web-site is a german seller: spectrumaudio.de.(except for the option n.8, the Ciare CH-201)

So, my dear friends, I hope that I've given you all the basic informations in order to support me in this project (I'd like to get your support so much

)
As I have already said this project has great importance to me, unfrotunately I'm 30 years old but I've to fight against a monster-disease, for this reason I want to keep myself active making something that I've always dreamed but I've had no time to make it until this time.

I hope to have you next to me and I even hope to count on your support!

Thank you for your kindness and for your big patience!:cheers:;)
Pietro

plutperaucht
Stammgast

#2 erstellt: 18. Sep 2014, 15:29

Hi Pietro

I can´t help you with your actual problem, but I´m sure I can help my fellow forum members to communicate

What´s keeping most from replying here, I think, is the language barrier! So, first things first, let me ask you: WILL you understand if the folks here reply in german?

If not so, I will do my best to translate what´s being recommended - if you are willing to accept it might take some time for me to get that done

I´d just hate to see your question drop down the list just because no one took the time to open their dictionaries....

.....und auf Deutsch:

Buben und Mädels: Wer sich nicht traut dem guten Mann zu antworten, weil das Schulenglisch ihn verlassen hat: Schreibt´s auf deutsch hin, ich versuche dann Eure Beiträge zu übersetzen, wenn ich nachkomme! Schreibt keine Bandwürmer, dann geht´s schneller

Gruß und Blues
pp

sayrum
Inventar

#3 erstellt: 18. Sep 2014, 15:45

Ciao Pietro
as far as i understand you only want the look of vintage speakers, since the drivers you have listed are all modern, is that correct?

What is your budget?
At what distance do you listen?
How loud do they have to play/ how loud do you listen?

Regards

peters8
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei

#4 erstellt: 19. Sep 2014, 02:08

plutperaucht (Beitrag #2) schrieb:

Hi Pietro

I can´t help you with your actual problem, but I´m sure I can help my fellow forum members to communicate

Hi dear Plutperaucht!!!
You can't immagine how your message is making me happy!!!
I don't know how I can thank you for your precious support that you're giving me!!!

I always loved germans and your beautiful country.If I can, one day, I'll go to live there, maybe, in Berlin...but at this time, due to my disease, unfortunately I can't make any plan for my future

Anyway...thank you so much my dear friend for your precious availability and for your fundamental support that you're giving me!

However, for me there is no problem if the other friends of this wonderful forum, reply, write and speak to me in german.
After all this is a german forum...german is your beautiful language, so I'll use some automatic translator in the web to translate from german to english...to italian or (why not?!!!) to spanish, because I've lived in Barcelona for almost ten years!!!
If I find problems in the translation, I'll ask for your help!

So dear friend Plutperaucht, don't worry about that!!! there's no languange barrier today!!!
Could I ask you to translate in german my request for help for my project?I hope that will be not a trouble for you, dear Plutperaucht!

peters8
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei

#5 erstellt: 19. Sep 2014, 03:29

Well, my dear friends I've received a very precious message from a kind member of the forum (thank you so much Stefan

;))
He've given me 3 excellent recommendations for my project.
I give you his list with these 3 options, with my hope that you'll help me to choose the definitive and the best solution for my project, but first I would to tell you again what I want to do with these speakers:

I need a high efficiency speakers to listen music (Rock in general) with some vintage "stereo combo systems" (someone call them "all in one systems")
like these:

http://www.ebay.it/i...tem4627ca37bf&_uhb=1

http://www.kijiji.it...o-anni70-80/68205606

http://pioneer.pytalhost.eu/1975/pioneer-29.jpg

http://www.kijiji.it...o-ampli-215/21440589

Do you like them???...it's my personal small collection!!!

They're all well-soundig systems, but as you surely know, they have very low power output (from 10 to 15 watt the most powerfull systems).
The room where I listen music with them is not very small, it's is a 20 quadratmeter room.
I like to hear music loudly (maybe too much!!! :D), for this reason I'm choosing an high efficiency speaker to connect to those vintage low-pontency sytems of my collection!
The last important thing:my mother doesn't like big speaker boxes unfortunately, so they must have 40 liters maximum!
My maximum budget that I can spend is about 230-250 euro.
Now I think you have all the coordinates in order to help me in this choise:
Here's the 3 famous options that Stefan have recommend for this project:

1)http://www.spectrumaudio.de/bausatz/specGHP25Si426.html

2)http://www.spectrumaudio.de/bausatz/specBRsi1100.html

3)http://www.spectrumaudio.de/bausatz/specBRsi210.html

Which is the best option for this project in your opinion? What do you think: is it better an 8 ohm or a 4 ohm speaker system in your opnion?
On every model of my small collection that I've showed to you before, on the back (where are the speakers connections) it's written "4-8 ohm speakers"
and I'm very confused about that!

If you think that in these projects it's better to add a little tweeter to improve the sound, feel free to advice me that!!!

Please help me!!!

your support isreally fundamental for me...more than you can immagine!

If you can and when you can (of course!!!) could you translate this message in german language, dear Plutperaucht, please?

Thank you to everyone, my dear friends for your patience, your kindness and for your precious support!

[Beitrag von peters8 am 19. Sep 2014, 03:48 bearbeitet]

sayrum
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 19. Sep 2014, 05:24

¡Hola!

For a high efficency project that should be something special i would get a large (maybe 8 inch) fullrange driver and add a tweeter.

This would be me favorite!
You have a larger cone (membran) area which to me sounds more authentic, in a Tqwt (MLTL?) giving deep bass without bloating plus a very good (detailed) tweeter, which helps with the small sweet spot of large full rangers.

The speaker can be placed near to walls which is helpful in most livingrooms

The "father" of the concept is a member in this forum: holly65.

Regards

plutperaucht
Stammgast

#7 erstellt: 19. Sep 2014, 05:38

....und die Übersetzung.... Wer mich so lieb bittet....

Ich möchte ein Paar Lautsprecher mit hohem Wirkungsgrad bauen um Musik (vornehmlich Rock) zu hören, welche ich mit einer alten Kompaktanlage wie dieser betreiben will:

*Links*

Gefallen sie euch? Ist meine eigene, kleine Sammlung!!
Es sind alles sehr gut klingende Systeme, haben aber, wie Ihr alle wisst, recht wenig Leistung (zwischen 10 bis 15 Watt beim stärksten System). Das Zimmer in dem ich Musik höre ist nicht sehr groß, etwa 20m². Ich höre gerne laut (vielleicht zu laut!!) daher sollen LS mit hohem Wirkungsgrad her, die dann an den schwachbrüstigen Anlagen laufen sollen.
Noch eine wichtige Sache: Meine Mutter möchte keine großen Kisten (..rumstehen haben...Ed.) also sollten sie nicht größer als 40 Liter sein.
Das Maximalbudget das ich ausgeben kann liegt bei 230-250 Euro. Nun habt ihr mal grobe Eckdaten um mir bei meiner Auswahl zu helfen. Hier sind die 3 Möglichkeiten die mir Stefan empfohlen hat:

*Links*

Was ist Eurer Meinung nach die beste Wahl für mein Projekt? Was denkt ihr: sind 8 Ohm oder 4 Ohm besser? Auf allen Modellen aus meiner Sammlung die ich euch gezeigt habe steht (wo die Lautsprecher angeschlossen werden) „4-8 Ohm Lautsprecher“ und das verwirrt mich sehr.
Wenn ihr meint daß es die Klangqualität verbessert einen Hochtöner hinzu zu nehmen, dann dürft ihr gerne dazu raten.

Bitte helft mir!! Eure Unterstützung ist mir sehr wichtig...mehr als ihr euch vorstellen könnt!

(Satz in dem ICH vorkomme gestrichen pp, Ed.)

Danke Euch allen, liebe Freunde, für Eure Geduld, eure Freundlichkeit und eure geschätzte Unterstützung.

Pietro.

soweit das letzte Posting des Fragestellers...

Gruß und Blues
pp

[Beitrag von plutperaucht am 19. Sep 2014, 10:15 bearbeitet]

herr_der_ringe
Inventar

#8 erstellt: 19. Sep 2014, 23:03

etwas zu leise. etwas zu teuer. aber der

ct239 ist meiner meinung nach der einzige zweiweger, der halbwegs reinpasst.

a little too quiet & too expensive. but in my opinion the

ct239 is the only 2-way-speaker that fits nearly.

captain_carot
Inventar

#9 erstellt: 19. Sep 2014, 23:40

How about PA Coaxes

like this or a classic 8" or 10" plus Horntweeter Combo?

Should be loud enough at 10 to 15W i think.

The A&D Coaxes used in the CoSaMo are actually pretty cheap, at least here.

sayrum
Inventar

#10 erstellt: 20. Sep 2014, 05:41

Wäre die

CT 263 was?
Preis passt, Größe knapp zu viel, doch wie ist es mit der Abstimmung / Klangqualiät?

Gruß

holly65
Hat sich gelöscht

#11 erstellt: 20. Sep 2014, 08:00

Hello Pietro,

sorry for my really bad English......

sayrum (Beitrag #6) schrieb:

For a high efficency project that should be something special i would get a large (maybe 8 inch) fullrange driver and add a tweeter.

The speaker can be placed near to walls which is helpful in most livingrooms

It's an unfolded TQWT that can be placed very near at the Wall.

The 8* BB ist the Sica Z004450 and he can Play also excellent without Tweeter.
I take the AMT Tweeter to get a bigger Sweetspot - the Sweetspot of 8* BBs is often really small.

The Z004450 also works really great in 25 Liter BR and plays (measuered) from 60Hz -3dB, In Room, near the Wall
yot can get f3 around 50Hz.

For the BB fullrange in 25 L. BR i have a correction circuit created, together with the AMT in 25 L.
the existing correction circuit must be re-engineered because the Baffle size changes.

Regards

Karsten

peters8
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei

#12 erstellt: 21. Sep 2014, 05:23

Hi my dear friends!!!

Thank you for your support and for every interesting message you're giving me.

I'm studying them, one by one!

This is a completely new world for me and thank to you I'm very happy, thinking about this project!

Anyway, I have a question for you: could be a problem, if a powerfull speaker (like the Sica Z004450, for example: it have about 120 watt RMS) is connected to a low-power amplifier (like my vintage systems with a 10-12 watt power output,for example)???
In this case, wouldn't it be better to use speakers with less power capacity or not???
I aplogize for my terrible ignorance, dear friends...I'm vert sorry for this stupid question!!!

I'm a still a newbie!!!

Thank you for your patience!

Ciao!!!

Pietro

captain_carot
Inventar

#13 erstellt: 21. Sep 2014, 09:01

Actually that doesn't matter. Only thing is you could probably kill a 10W speaker with your 15W amp electrically.
But you can also destroy a 120W speaker with a 15W amp mechanically.

Just realized that my English got much worse, and my technical english never was good.

holly65
Hat sich gelöscht

#14 erstellt: 21. Sep 2014, 12:05

Hi,

ich schreibe erst einmal auf Deutsch da mein technische Englisch fast nicht vorhanden ist.......und hoffe auf den freundlichen Übersetzer.

Probleme haben alle Amps wenn man sie an ihrer oberen Leistungsgrenze betreibt.
Als da wären: klipping, manche Amps liefern gern mal Gleichstrom (AC) und "grillen" die Schwingspulen der LS,
und ausgereizte Dynamikfähigkeit.

Bei Verstärkern mit geringer "Leistung" ist diese Grenze natürlich schneller erreicht.

Wobei 2x10 Watt RMS im Hörraum schon zu beachtlichen Lautstärken ausreichen.
Der Z004450 z.B. erreicht simuliert in 1 Meter Entfernung bei 10W ca. 103dB.

Da die Simulation imho auf unendlicher Schallwand simuliert zieht man in der Praxis ca.3 - 10 dB (jeh nach Schallwandgröße)
für die Bafflestep Entzerrung ab.
Beispiel (Graph 3):

http://www.harbeth.c...snotebookdetail&id=5

Bei 2 Lautsprechern im Raum addiert man 3dB dazu, der Raumeinfluß (roomgain) kommt auch noch hinzu.

Regards

Karsten

[Beitrag von holly65 am 21. Sep 2014, 12:14 bearbeitet]

plutperaucht
Stammgast

#15 erstellt: 21. Sep 2014, 14:04

Karstens Posting:

All amps will be a cause of- and run into - trouble if you operate them at their upper power level. E.g.: Clipping [signal clipping Ed.], some amps have a tendency to emit a direct current (corrente continua) [when maxed out... Ed.] as well as lowered dynamic capability under stress.

Lower „power“ amps will reach these limits sooner, yet (an output power of...Ed.) 2x10 watts RMS will cater for remarkable volume levels. The Z004450 for instance will (as simulated) reach ca. 103 dB with 10 watts @ 1 meter distance.

IMG of simu

Since this simulation imho projects an infinite baffle, for practical use you will have to subtract ca. 3-10 dB (depending on baffle size) for a baffle step correction.
Example (Graph3):
Link

With 2 loudspeakers in the room, a 3dB gain, induced by the room (room gain) is added.

Regards

Karsten

...2 Details schöner gebügelt, sorry