ProAc Response 1SC (in english)

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m2catter
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#1 erstellt: 20. Mrz 2009, 00:55

I am approaching my fiftieth soon and did spent an awful lot of money over the last three decades for this hobby, and what a beautiful hobby this is, listening to music.
I owned so many different speakers that I am almost unable to recall all of them, but most being British and a couple of other European ones too, but often there was something missing. Some were really nice, and some clearly overrated.
With those little 1SC’s I found my Holy Grail.
No, this is not a perfect speaker. Those ProAcs are designed for small to medium sized rooms. There are limitations in their bass extension and in sheer volume. As many other thoroughbreds they have a very limited sweet spot. Sometimes, when my better half vacuums the carpets it can happen, that I measure whether the distance to my listening position is still the same. If one speaker is pushed only 50mm behind the other one in distance, the sweet spot is gone. The same applies for the toed in angle. No other speaker I ever owned made small alterations so clearly audible (with exception of Quad’s ESL 57). You only need to replace a chinch cable and you will hear a difference, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. As if those wooden boxes are somehow alive. They don’t need extremely strong amplification, but insure a good quality one. Ones the right electronics and setup is found the music will disappear from those speakers, there is no room as such anymore. Time becomes somehow irrelevant, and I am not talking about the speaker’s timing. All those phrases like imaginary, vocals, soundstage, midband, heights etc., used in describing the quality or lack of such of a pair of speakers, are only used once those parameters are somehow missing.
The 1SCs are able to reproducing music in a three dimensional space, timeless but most importantly in a very touching emotional way. They just sound so right. I don’t want to turn the stereo off anymore, and running through my record or CD collection becomes a habit the same way it was 30 years ago, when I dreamt dreams as a teenager. No, they are not perfect, but absolutely magic little things.
Just imagine the feeling when listening to a track you listened to countless times before and out of a sudden you hear another tone, an additional piece of information you have never realized earlier with other speakers. That is unreal.
Put on Georges Bizet’s “Je crois entendre encore”, performed by Salvatore Licitra or Keith Jarrett’s Koeln Concert, or Miles Davis’s “Kind of Blue”, and you will know what I mean.
I want to thank my beautiful wife for standing by me all those years, and enabling me to spend the money we did spend for this hobby especially as those little ProAcs are not cheap. Believe me, if you love music they are worth every single cent.
I think that is ProAc’s secret, really being able to reproducing music in a way, that music itself becomes alive. Those little beauties are real gems…………………………………
P.S.: Just read on the ProAc webpage, that after 12 years of production, the 1SC has found its successor in the brand new D1 model. Can it really get any better?

[Beitrag von m2catter am 20. Mrz 2009, 01:02 bearbeitet]

lorric
Inventar

#2 erstellt: 20. Mrz 2009, 12:29

Hi,

very nice review. The way you describe it, these speakers are able to transport music into open space. Once the right setup is found to suit your preferences.

I only recently discovered “British-Hifi” for myself. Not speakers yet, but Amp and CDP. Somehow they seem to satisfy my listening preferences the best. I’m very “begeistert”

Nice one there for your wife too. One tends to forget that the wife sometimes has to endure quite a lot as far as some hobbies go.

Your review also makes very clear, that it’s worth investing some time and care into such things as finding the positions for and to the speakers. People with less patience would probably never discover the highlights’ of the ProAcs.

Greetz
lorric

[Beitrag von lorric am 20. Mrz 2009, 17:43 bearbeitet]

m2catter
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#3 erstellt: 21. Mrz 2009, 01:38

Hi Iorric,
cheers for your response.
ProAcs most certainly paint a big picture, sometimes it appears unreal, because there is so much more music out of a sudden. I found that once a speaker is able to reproduce on a certain level, their sweet spot is more limited then with cheaper designs, that is my expierience of course. The better your gear becomes, the more important is a certain symmetry. That includes tweeter at ear hight, distances from rear and side walls matching and toed in angle correct. Most often speakers will sound best if placed well into the room.
I mentioned they are not cheap, but absolutely worth their asking price. In the past I paid a lot for others, sadly I had to figure out later on that it was too much. Even when you look at ProAc's entry level speakers, the Studio 110 (bookshelves) or the Studio 130 (floorstanders), they aren't that much more expensive than other medium priced gear but in long term so much more satisfying. Let us assume you are happy with the sound, how little are a couple of hundrerd Euros more if you look at 15 or 20 years of fun and excitement (goose bumps syndrome - Schmetter- lingen im Bauch)? And for some people it also matters that ProAcs are still designed and handbuild in the UK.
You should audition them at home, or at least before you buy anything else give them a go (remember when listening to ProAc at any dealer, to ask them whether they have been broken in completely, takes a minimum of 200 hours for them to sound their best).
Yes my wife went through a couple of hickups with me, so I can say our respect over the years has grown, and most definitely my admiration for her. Sharing the love for music can help, enjoy your weekend
cheers Michael

[Beitrag von m2catter am 21. Mrz 2009, 02:55 bearbeitet]

lorric
Inventar

#4 erstellt: 21. Mrz 2009, 18:55

Hi Michael,

you're right. The true art probably lies in finding the right equipment just slightly above one's absolute financial limit. It's like rewarding oneself for... whatever.

I'll certainly keep the ProAcs in mind. At the moment there's no thinking of replacing my Elacs. Recently indulged in a Arcam amp. And then, by need because my old CDP gave up, I just shortly acquired an Arcam CDP.

Out of your personal experience. Does concentrating on the "sweet-spot" limit the sound stage in any way? It's something I experience with my speakers. Sitting right in the area of the sweet-spot, I'm able to locate instruments, but the stage somehow seems limited. Moving out of the sweet-spot the sound-stage seems to become much wider and the sound richer. But then I guess my speakers are more forgiving then the ProAc, which I believe also has the status of a monitor?

Breaking in speakers. Do you think that this actually takes place, or is it more a matter of ears getting used to the sound? I'll grant that the material of the speakers will undergo a change because of the the vibrations. But is this really audible?

'till then
Arvid

P.S.
Schmetterlinge im Bauch - is what you should experience looking at your wife

Gänsehaut = goose pimples.

[Beitrag von lorric am 21. Mrz 2009, 19:37 bearbeitet]

m2catter
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#5 erstellt: 22. Mrz 2009, 09:26

Hi Arvid,
Congratulations on the purchase of your Arcam electronics, their products always offer exceptional value for money.
I also rate Elac as excellent speakers. Last time I vistited Germany I auditioned entry level Elacs, the BS63 as far as my memory goes. I was very impressed with their vivid and joyful presentation of music, most definitely worth their money, and almost a steal compared to others in that class.
In regards to the sweet spot, that is a subject I could write for hours, it is almost like entering a world of its own, with any possible outcome. You will know when you achieved that goal, because from there on what you hear becomes magic.
The ProAcs sound quite nice even if your seating position is not ideal, but once you move into that spot that is as if someone opens a window enabling you to look into a different galaxy, as if you would jump head first into a black hole. The speakers in front of you will disappear completely with their cabinets, and you will find that it becomes impossible to locate them. You are right in the music itself....
With our ProAc's (yes they are mini monitors), they certainly sound good straight away, but need their breaking in time so that the outer rubbery part of the mid/bass driver becomes softer and therefor allows the membran to move faster, more precise with less efforts. The differences are quite noticable. ProAc themself claim that this breaking in period will take up to 200 hours.
By the way, every new speaker regardless of manufacturer needs a certain time for this process to happen. You will realize that the sound becomes faster and more detailed, bass cleaner and nuances more audible.
Symmetry and synergy are the key for everything, at least in hifi. I don't know how far you are into this subject, but even little changes like swapping a chinch cable can create a nicer or harsher sound, a leaner or more full bodied sound. It can allow more details to emerge, or less if you have chosen the wrong ones. That is the sort of fine tuning you do, once you settled for a certain speaker and electronics.
For example, an absolute steal in regards of a neutral chinch cable is the Dynavox, it sets you back less than 10 Euros, and will put shame on far more expensive ones from leading manufactures. It is a quantum leap compared to the ones supplied for free. Always buy cables in the right length you need, meaning as short as possible, and as long as necesary. If you want more details regarding the Dynavox let me know.
I am always happy if I can achieve a change for the better using a small budget. An acquaintance from San Francisko (a real hifi freak), who owns the same ProAc speakers, is using speaker cables, which set him back almost 25.000 Euros. Audio freaks can be real weirdos, but he is indeed a real nice one.
But the most gain you can achieve with no money involved at all is shifting the speakers in your room until you have found the right spot/position where they sound best for you.
cheers Michael
P.S.: you mentioned that placing yourself in the sweet spot of your Elacs the "soundstage" appears limited to you, so try to move the speakers a bit further away from one each other, for example if they are 2m apart, try 2.5m and see what happens. Also never underestimate the toed in angle.

[Beitrag von m2catter am 22. Mrz 2009, 13:45 bearbeitet]

lorric
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 22. Mrz 2009, 17:09

Howzit Michael,

from what I gather you're writing from outside Germany. UK?

Yes, please let me know about the Dynavox. Perhaps per PN since we're drifting offtopic. Guess who's going to reposition his speakers?

Perhaps you'll keep us informed on the ProAc?

Greetz
lorric

m2catter
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#7 erstellt: 23. Mrz 2009, 01:31

Hi Arvid,
yes I am writing from outside my old continent, but from an even older one, Australia (Western Australia).
I will write you a peronal email regarding Dynavox.
See, to me I have found my Holy Grail with ProAcs, but there are so many good speakers out there, it would be unfair and unwise to state ProAcs are best, they are the ones to me at this stage of my life, and in respect to what I can afford. But talking especially about mini monitors only, I haven't heard any better ones, regardless of price.
But other British companies like ATC, Spendor, Harbeth and Quad(electrostatic only) are building excellent speakers too. Plus others not mentioned here. I have to admit that I am more biased towards British hifi.
And although hifi is my hobby for over thirty years, there are still companies at the high end sector, I have hardly heard off.
But in my humble opinion it is not always wise trying to reach out for stars, things which would put your family under a lot of strain.
It is just a wonderful and beautiful hobby, isn't it?
Good luck with your hunt for the sweet spot, please keep us informed. It was a pleasure to exchanging thoughts, all the best to you
cheers Michael

[Beitrag von m2catter am 23. Mrz 2009, 02:31 bearbeitet]

Jeremy
Inventar

#8 erstellt: 23. Mrz 2009, 13:35

Have You also heard and compared to the Response D-Two, the newest and 'biggest' Compact-Monitor from ProAc?
I'm especially interested in this.
Are they sonically a step above the 1SC’s?
There are a lot of good reviews about the 1SC (and the Tablette Ref. 8 (Sign.) too), but nearly nothing about the Response D-Two.

Bernhard

m2catter
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#9 erstellt: 23. Mrz 2009, 13:55

Hi Bernhard,
sorry for disappointing you, haven't had the pleasure to listen to the D Two. It is my understanding so, that the D Two is considerable larger than the 1SC and therefor still a monitor, but not a mini monitor anymore. British mags are stating, that the spectecular midrange of the 1SC is well maintained in the D Two, but with the addition of a deeper reaching bass.
If you have the chance to listen to one yourself in the future, then please keep us informed,
cheers Michael